Is Alleyn's School a cuckoo?

[Zebedee Tring]

Let me get this straight, Bob. Basically you are telling me that you, as a state school educated person who knows a few privately educated people, are in a better position to tell me, a privately educated person, that privately educated people don't benefit from connections. I left my independent school (a very minor one compared with the Bullingdon type school) almost 50 years and I can assure you that over the 50 years since then the old boy and old girl networks have worked very well for a large number of people - indeed I benefited from it at the time that I left school. So you can imagine how much the Bullingdon brigade have benefited from their more lofty school networks.

I was trying to put forward my views in a measured way (and remember that I'm not anti private schools per se - just trying to tell it as I see it). However, I'm afraid that you appear to be unable to engage in discussion without moving into a snarky and snide put down style when debating with people with whom you disagree. Indeed, like a number of snide exchanges on EDF and elsewhere on the web, it reminds me of the playground exchanges in my independent school 50 years ago on the lines of "I'm right - you're wrong - you're an idiot". Unlike you, I have moved on from those days. I will therefore not engage in discussion with you on this thread or on any other EDF thread and will not reply to any further posts from you on this thread.

[*Bob*]

Is there anything else about Britain that might be different 50 years ago compared to, say, today?

If I suggested your son got his first because you play bridge with his tutor's Dad, you be annoyed, right? And yet you feel quite happy to generalise the other way.

But feel free to take your ball home anytime you please.

[legalalien]

I'm saying that some private schools locally are more socioeconomically diverse than some state schools locally.

There's a big variation between state schools locally - as Ofsted measures of things like free school meals historically indicate. The suggestion seemed to be that my child should be sent to a "good" local school so that he could broaden his horizons (but that I wouldn't be expected to send him to a poor inner city type school) - which I find a surprising argument to make....

[newboots]

"I'm saying that some private schools locally are more socioeconomically diverse than some state schools locally."

Really and truly?

[legalalien]

Well, I can only go on personal experience of people I know, so not scientific, obviously. :)

[Miacis]

Amazed legal alien. which schools? Certainly not from my observations. Would be interested to know.

[mako]

Legal alien you arent making much of an argument. Why are you surprised that I wouldnt expect you to choose to send your child to a poor quality school if you have the option of Alleyns? I hope you havent lazily assumed that just because I think some excellent local state schools can provide a better education than Alleyns that I would think that any state school would be better than Alleyns as that would be a ridiculous assumption.

[legalalien]

Mako - fair comment. I'm just generally tired of having well heeled parents telling me I'm morally wrong for sending my child to a private school, and that they would never choose a school outside the state system. Including a couple of people who have backtracked when their only personal option turned out to be the "wrong" kin of state school. Bu t you didn't , of course, say that.

[edhistory]

Such a simple question:

What pro bono things has Alleyn's School done for the East Dulwich community since the 2006 Act?

[keane]

Well as I said on the other thread about the money they receive from the dulwich estate for the 'education of poor scholars,' one thing Alleyns haven't been doing for the local community under their charitable status is allowing Heber primary school to sometimes use their field on the left hand side of Townley Rd as you go down the road with Lordship Lane behind you, for supervised (by Heber) p.e lessons. That field & 2 tennis courts is barely used in the week. Heber have been asking for the last 6 years. And yes I think they should do this as part of their charitable status. They receive money from the estate, no one who contributes money to the dulwich estate is given a breakdown of how that money is used by the beneficiary private schools. Heber is a great state primary but has very little outside space, could Alleyns as the nearest school with lots of space not share some of it? Dulwich prep allow Kingsdale to use their playing fields, why not Alleyns?

[DaveR]

"Such a simple question:

What pro bono things has Alleyn's School done for the East Dulwich community since the 2006 Act?"

And such a simple answer - things done pro bono for the ED community are irrelevant under the 2006 Act.

[LondonMix]

Alleyn's uses all of the money it receives from the Dulwich Estate to fund scholarships as was intended by the original endowment...

[keane]

I would really like to see the exact breakdown of the 6 and a half million this year received by the beneficiary schools from the Dulwich Estate to see if all the money in fact does get used to fund scholarships.

[LondonMix]

I didn't say all the schools but Alleyn publishes information on its website confirming it's all used for bursaries. Go have a look.

[Ice Age]

Am I the only one to find the title of this thread annoyingly ignorant?

The cuckoo is a remarkable creature and perfectly entitled to take its place in the natural world. The secret to its success is, of course, brilliant mimicry.

To take its name and use it as a slur against private schools is really quite inappropriate from a logical perspective.

[Green Goose]

Ice Age Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Am I the only one to find the title of this thread

> annoyingly ignorant?

>

> The cuckoo is a remarkable creature and perfectly

> entitled to take its place in the natural world.

> The secret to its success is, of course, brilliant

> mimicry.

>

> To take its name and use it as a slur against

> private schools is really quite inappropriate from

> a logical perspective.

Well done Ice Age, up until now this thread was getting really boring. Hopefully, you have put it to bed.

GG

[BrandNewGuy]

Ice Age Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Am I the only one to find the title of this thread

> annoyingly ignorant?

>

> The cuckoo is a remarkable creature and perfectly

> entitled to take its place in the natural world.

> The secret to its success is, of course, brilliant

> mimicry.

>

> To take its name and use it as a slur against

> private schools is really quite inappropriate from

> a logical perspective.

And as pointed out previously, Alleyn's was here before any of the state schools, so suggesting it's somehow muscled in parasitically and 'starved' them is disingenuous.

[edhistory]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Such a simple question:

>

> What pro bono things has Alleyn's School done for

> the East Dulwich community since the 2006 Act?"

>

> And such a simple answer - things done pro bono

> for the ED community are irrelevant under the 2006

> Act.

That is not an answer to the question.

The Alleyn's Charity Annual Report for 2013 has this:

"Public benefit

The Governors confirm that they have complied with the duty in section 17 of the Charities Act 2011 to have due regard to the public benefit guidance published by the Charity Commission in determining the activities undertaken by the charity. The School remains committed to making its facilities available to the local community, providing some 3,500 hours of public access to its facilities per year. This is managed by the Friends, Community, and Commercial committee, overseen by the Assistant Head [Head of Co-Curricular]. The School also enjoys fruitful partnerships with a number of local state schools, and is seeking to develop links with more schools overseas."

3,500 hours is an average of 67 hours per week.

Whether, pro bono, or not, what is this?

[keane]

What are their 'fruitful' partnerships with local state schools then?! They won't have anything to do with the numerous requests from Heber primary as one of their nearest neighbouring state primaries!

[keane]

I think this is an interesting piece on charitable status of private schools:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/07/private-schools-charitable-status-reform

[legalalien]

Maybe. Ms millar was on SkY this morning with the chap from the independent schools conference, not entirely convinced by her performance, interestingly she seemed to be drawing the line between "well heeled schools" (state and private) vs others,,which I habe some sympathy with.

Keane, have you had a thread about Heber's situation/ who, apart from Alleyns, has the school engaged with?. I suspect a community brainstorm about Heber's games facilities might be more productive than sniping at Alleyns. Have you spoken with eg SCST or the chaps at the Griffin?

[keane]

Heber approached Alleyns as their nearest school for the primary school children to walk to. It makes more sense, they are five minutes down the road and barely use the field I mentioned in the week or those 2 tennis courts. I am not 'sniping' at Alleyns though, merely stating fact.

[legalalien]

Yes but as yo've mentioned it several times now and noted that they've been asking for six years it's obviously an issue. If Heber have an ongoing issue about lack of sports space then why not start a thread asking for support on that. Is all I'm saying.

[keane]

Yes the school have been exploring other avenues. But the space exists already across the road & Alleyns could be nicer about it as part if their charitable status/community outreach etc etc! It isn't Heber's fault they don't have any space the school is on the middle of a residential road & can't expand beyond its footprint.

[LondonMix]

It looks like a Victorian school. When did the build over some of their playing areas?