One in Ten

[Huguenot]

I just worry about the figures.

One in ten women face violence, and then you trot out Rape Crisis figures. Men don't report violence, they just take the kicking.

Is getting booted in the goolies sexual assault?

[Huguenot]

Also, what happens if you take gender out of it?

Nine in ten smaller people have been attacked by larger people at least once in their life.

Nine in ten larger people have used physical intimidation or violence to get their own way at least once in their life.

Maybe this is it, is there 'sexual' violence, or is there just bullying?

[Mick Mac]

Good point Huguenot but the smaller person in most cases is a woman. Men know woman are weaker physically and some take advantage of this. Men do not tend to take advantage of other men even if they are smaller as to be honest some smaller men can handle themselves pretty well.

Women on the other hand should take responsibility for psychological abuse in general - they are the masters of that one.

[RosieH]

Ladies may think this point patronising, and its not really intended to be, but in general the nicest women will mostly marry and have children and hopefully be happy doing this, the ones we are left with in the workplace, especially the finance and legal professions, can be the most difficult types and not a true reflection of the qualities woman can bring to the workplace.

Holy sh1t, really? Ha, ok, you're right - I'm busted - I am a b1tch of the first order and god help any poor sod who has to work for me. Truly, every time one of my friends asks me why they need to be a feminist any more, and I tell them that equality is not yet won, I will direct them to this not-intended-to-be-patronising post and remind them that this is from one of the nice guys.

Huguenot, I understand your concerns, really - in answer to some of your questions, have a read of the map of gaps report - it's a joint project by the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the End Violence Against Women Coalition (which includes Amnesty and Rape Crisis). The figure comes from there - these are organisations that I trust - however I will delve a bit more later to get a breakdown of the stats and come back to you with that.

And Mikecg,

Boycotted because I am male and no matter what any bloke says it will always be wrong even if sympathetic......

way to make a grown up argument!

[RosieH]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Women on the other hand should take responsibility

> for psychological abuse in general - they are the

> masters of that one.

Mick - there's no denying that men suffer a huge amount of violence and statistically are more likely than women to be victims of violence - as I said above, it's the nature of the violence that tends to differ.

But you're very much mistaken if you think that domestic violence doesn't come hand in hand with psychological abuse - that that's women's territory - typically it starts with psychological abuse and escalates to physical. That is not intended in any way to allow women psychological abusers off the hook - just to say that it's both sexes - abuse of any kind is unacceptable.

[Mick Mac]

Well Rosie - in very general terms (I like things black and white)

Men are more likley to be guilty of physical abuse (because they are stronger and more physical - this is what you are trying to say in this thread is it not?)

Women are more likely to be guilty of psychological abuse (because they can't do the physical stuff so well so they have learnt other skills)

As for what I said earlier, about many of the best women being at home, I stand by it. My wife is lovely, has a 1st class honours degree and is more intelligent and more capable that me no doubt. However guess what, she no longer works, she is now a full time Mum and the kids love it that way. She would have been a great manager of staff but like others she has chosen to be a Mum and will be a loss to her former workplace.

Women will always be viewed as the most important person to be looking after the children. There is a natural bond between mother and child. When you take into account the extortionate childcare costs in London it often means that it is not worth both parents working, thats what happens and many the best women end up no longer being in the workplace, therefore the ones who continue to work are not a true cross section of female personailities and attributes.

And don't say you feel sorry for my wife, she's clearly a very lucky lady.;-)

[Huguenot]

I'm just looking at my Facebook list, and I can't believe that ten of my lady friends have been raped and/or are suffering domestic violence.

I can definitely believe that at least ten of them have had blazing rows with pots, pans and vases flying. I can certainly imagine a couple of them getting involved in fisticuffs - at least two of them have slapped my cheeks for being cheeky.

I can also believe that a few of both genders have been badgered into sexual encounters that some extremists would stick in the same category as hanging around in dark alleys with a kitchen knife.

However, I couldn't characterise this as domestic violence. It's not Dirty Den or honour killings, or whatever else springs to mind to the 'one in ten' crowd.

I could see this woman in a domestic violence situation, but I'm not prepared to accept that to be a gender issue that can be resolved with greater awareness or finger wagging at men in general.

[bignumber5]

I'm just looking at my Facebook list, and I can't believe that ten of my lady friends have been raped and/or are suffering domestic violence

Missing the demographic point a little there H. I'd say the same about my female acquaintancees, but the strong confident women that are friends with a guardian reading nancy such as myself are not perhaps the most likely demographic. I'm sure that if your female facebook friends were all teenage crack-whores then the incidence would be a tad more than 10%. Anyway, the whole point is that people don't speak out, so you wouldn't know if they had. Behind closed doors and all that...

I've been working in south london A&E departments for about 6 years, and on anecdotal experience I believe the statistic. I also think that reference to skewing of stats because male victims don't come forward fails to appreciate how many female victims don't come forward.

More services means more support, and hopefully a greater feeling of safety in having the courage to come forward.

I say again, a great campaign.

[TillieTrotter]

.

[RosieH]

bignumber5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm just looking at my Facebook list, and I can't

> believe that ten of my lady friends have been

> raped and/or are suffering domestic violence

>

> Missing the demographic point a little there H.

> I'd say the same about my female acquaintancees,

> but the strong confident women that are friends

> with a guardian reading nancy such as myself are

> not perhaps the most likely demographic. I'm sure

> that if your female facebook friends were all

> teenage crack-whores then the incidence would be a

> tad more than 10%. Anyway, the whole point is that

> people don't speak out, so you wouldn't know if

> they had. Behind closed doors and all that...

Thanks for the support bignumber5, but I genuinely think that a lot of men would be surprised.

I'm not writing this in a bid to make anyone uncomfortable or to garner sympathy but in an attempt to open some eyes. My mum, my sister and I have all been victims of domestic violence. A good friend was sexually assaulted by one of her boss's clients. Her boss was also her boyfriend. She told him and expected him to cease doing business with the man who assaulted her - instead he sent her back to do further business with this man because "he clearly liked her". Another friend was sexually assaulted in a nightclub. Another friend suffered domestic violence at the hands of her boyfriend that included having her teeth punched out.

None of the above are/were teenage crack whores: all nice, educated, middle-class women. That's 6 women that I know about - how many more that I don't? Additionally, none of the above were reported to the police (and believe me that I wanted to) so I don't think the numbers are likely to be that skewed against men.

You can probably tell that this is a subject that is close to my heart. If you think it's not a campaign that's worthy of support, that's your prerogative. But to deny that there's a problem is to be very blinkered, and that's what the shocking statistic aims to counter.

[annaj]

Very soon I'm going to walk away from this thread, because I'm finding it so bizzare and upsetting.

But I'll have one more try first.

Mickmac, your opinion that nice women get married and have children leaving only bitches to work is so simplistic, generalised, presumptive, ridiculous and just plain wrong that it's hard to know where to start in replying.

Are you honestly saying that all nice women get married, have children and stop work and only manipulative, dominating bitches have careers and don't marry or have children, because no-one will have them? Can't you see what total nonsense that is?

I am married and have a very demanding career that, in addition to direct patient care sometimes in life and death situations, requires me to manage around a dozen junior staff memebers directly whenever I'm on duty as well as negotiating with thoses senior and junior to me in other specialties. I pride myself on treating my team well, never raising my voice and making those around me feel valued and respected. I know, because annonymised feedback is part of my annual review, that I am regarded as professional, trustworthy and approachable by those who work for me and with me.

Which of your tiny, narrow, sexist definitions do I fit? Neither? Exactly.

If you're still not conviced, please ask your wife, who I don't doubt is every bit as lovely as you describe her, to read what you posted and tell you, honestly, what she thinks and what her female friends would think of your opinion.

Now, to get back to the real deabte, Huguenot, amongst your female friends there may or may not be 10% who have or are suffering domwstic violence. If there are not it doesn't make the statistics invalid or incorrect for the wider population. But you know that, you understand statistics, so I'm not sure why your choosing to misunderstand in this way. Also, as others have already said, there may well be those amongst your friends who are, or have, suffered and would never dream of telling you or going public. That is kind of the point.

Like BN5 I work in front line healthcare and in my expereince domestic violence is common, occurs in every social group, happens mostly to women and is often unreported. So, sadly, I am all to ready to believe the 1 in 10.

As for the arguement that the campaign ignores other forms of violence, specifically violence against men, well, yes, it does, because that's not what it's about.

Listen carefully, this is a specific, single issue, campaign, lobbying for better, and more consistent, provision for support services for women who have suffer rape and domestic violence.

That is a good thing.

[Mikecg]

I agree with mick mac, my uncle always said if a woman has never been married by the time she's 35 theirs something wrong with them! controversial I know but hey I think there is something in it though.

[RosieH]

Ah Mike, Mike, Mike, and here's me thinking it was just that the world is full of intellectually-subnormal chauvinist cunts.

[bignumber5]

controversial I know

...in that it's sexist, ignorant rubbish.

this thread is supposed to be about raising awareness for victims of abuse - how is touting your ignorant, pathetic and biggoted views helping?

I yet again find myself hoping that you are deliberately trying to get a rise out of those of us in this corner, because surely nobody is enough of a muppet to genuinely mean what you are saying. When female colleagues have told me about how rife sexism is in the workplace, I am one of the first to object and say that in previous times perhaps but we now live in a much more enlightened society. Clearly I have too much faith in the general population.

I can also believe that a few of both genders have been badgered into sexual encounters that some extremists would stick in the same category as hanging around in dark alleys with a kitchen knife. However, I couldn't characterise this as domestic violence. It's not Dirty Den or honour killings, or whatever else springs to mind to the 'one in ten' crowd

Where exactly do you like your line drawn? Are women in short skirts "asking for it"? how about if she says no but you think that deep down she means yes? Is it ok to slap your wife around because she knew you had a temper when you got married and if she doesn't like it she can leave?

FFS, what's wrong with you people?!

[Mikecg]

I only quoted what I was told by the older generation, I personally think that any violation of a person is horrendous whether violent or otherwise. Ive seen women who have been raped in interviews on the TV and without trying to inflame anything, to me most of them look like victims.

[bignumber5]

Now victim blaming... just when I thought you couldn't have sunk lower.

And absolving yourself of any responsibility for your disgusting views because "the older generation" gave them to you - nice touch.

[bigbadwolf]

Now now you two calm down.

[bignumber5]

Mikecg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Look BN5 I don't like the idea of violence full

> stop or violating women, I agree with people

> raising awareness I just think the numbers quoted

> are too high otherwise there'd be more women with

> black eyes walking about wouldn't there, unless

> they don't go out until the injuries have healed.

Oh, I see - if you can't see external evidence of it then it's not happening. Right. Where do you stand on global warming, and do you believe in gravity?

[Mikecg]

LOL!

[RosieH]

I only quoted what I was told by the older generation

yet what you actually said was:

but hey I think there is something in it though

Mike, it really would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Are you saying that you know better than Amnesty International, Rape Crisis and the Equality and Human Rights Commission on the grounds that you don't see enough women with black eyes?

In a way, I'm grateful to you for opening up this question - perhaps this is the reason people find the figure so stark and unbelievable, because they don't always see the outward signs. You've probably read that sometimes in cases of child abuse friends / neighbours had no idea because there were no visible marks, perhaps because they were made on the body or in other places where they wouldn't show.

Add to that the stigma that's attached to domestic violence - it's something that women (and men who suffer it) want to hide.

And rape and sexual assault aren't marked by some kind of brand on the victim's face.

I'm not sure what you're expecting to see..?

[bigbadwolf]

Yeah Mike.

[bigbadwolf]

Have a heart.

[Mikecg]

No I think you'll find that my I think there's something in it though comment was about 35 year old spinsters and not about women getting violated.

[Mick Mac]

Mikecg

I don't need you to agree with my point if you are then going to misrepresent it - it does not help.

Annaj

"Are you honestly saying that all nice women get married, have children and stop work and only manipulative, dominating bitches have careers and don't marry or have children, because no-one will have them? Can't you see what total nonsense that is?"

No - I'm not saying that - there are many fantastic career women who continue to work after children, especially in the nhs or service industries. But if you look at the City I think its true to say that the ones that are still working in their 50s say, can be the types of people who are driven to the point of selfishness. Sexism definatley exists big time in these institutions but these people are the sorts of people with the sheer determination to never give into it, or accept defeat, which takes guts, but does not necessarily make for a nice person. Therefore if you take a successful cross section of 50 year old women in the top legal or financial firms in London you will get an unbalanced cross section of women.

BigNumber5 - It is because sexism exists in the workplace that we end up with this misrepresentation of women in the higher paid jobs in London. In general nicer people find it tough to succeed in these environments and can drop out.

Many people will disgree with the above points but many of those disagreeing will not have worked in the legal and financial sectors of the City. Others will have worked in legal/financial but will not have experienced the same people, that does not make me wrong, but its my perception and in our firm this is a given. The most senior woman in our firm got a witches hat for a secret santa present last year.

I don't think what i have said in this thread is sexist at all - I think its a realistic representation of what happens in certain workplaces.

I could make another point relating to men and women. Almost all partners in top law firms / financial firms have had to be nasty buggers (on occaision) to get to where they are - so male or female, they are in the main not the nicest of people, despite having client relationship skills that will make them look like the nicest people when the need arises.

And yes Anna - my wife knows my views on this subject are controversial - but she is proof of this - after 2 children she went back to work and as happens in many institutions, as she was now part time, she was given a completly unfulfilling role, so guess what she got frustrated with the lack of responsibility and rather than fight it all her life, causing additional stress for her and the whole family, she is taking a career break until the children are a little older.

[Mikecg]

I do feel for all types of people who are suffering, and I would say it will never go away, it's a fact of life like gravity and global warming.