One in Ten

[RosieH]

Each year, 1 in 10 women in Britain experience rape or other violence. Act now http://www.oneten.org.uk

Sorry if this annoys some people, being a women-centric campaign (I know the subject's raised heckles before), but I wanted to share this as I think the campaign is really important.

[KalamityKel]

Any idea on the statistics on male rape etc?

I mean this as a serious question and not to divert from the initial awareness being raised.

I am genuinely curious.

*edited to reflect last two lines

[Brendan]

Don?t worry Rosie. I don?t think anyone can fault a campaign against, violence against women for being too women-centric.

[RosieH]

Hi KK, according to Rape Crisis the numbers break down as follows:

23% of women and 3% of men experience sexual assault as an adult.

5% of women and 0.4% of men experience rape.

(Stats from Cross Government Action Plan on Sexual Violence and Abuse www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ Sexual-violence-action-plan)

But the Amnesty campaign goes beyond rape (although internationally it is very concerned with rape as a weapon of war). It also encompasses other acts of violence towards women because they're women, so includes domestic violence and female genital mutilation.

Some people may wonder about incidences of domestic violence against males, and I'm not 100% on the stats - I think they're roughly even. But it's the nature of the violence that tends to differ, i.e. more sustained and much more likely to result in injury / death when perpetrated by men against women.

[Huguenot]

I had female bosses for thirteen of the fifteen years that I worked for anyone else. On the whole I found female bosses to be more vindictive, more invidious, more intimidating and more humiliating than I ever witnessed men to be.

There's an excuse that they had to be 'stronger' to be equally successful, but on the whole I found them vicious and arbitrary.

I found women to be far more capable of inflicting sustained psychological violence over a period of years than men ever would. Men tend to be more abrupt, more physical and more limited than women. Men have this competitive encounter resolved in moments, whereas women seemed to destroy others over tens of years.

I've seen encounters where groups of otherwise friendly fellers have been driven into conflict be competitive girlfrieds.

I've found that 'let it go' runs better with men than women.

[annaj]

That may well all be true Hugenot, but all very subjective, anecdotal and absolutely nothing to do with the figures and issues that Rosie is trying to raise awareness of.

And I'm not even going to entertain the possibility that you're suggesting that it justifies sexual violence against and oppression of women.

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention Rosie.

[Huguenot]

I accept your point annaj, and I support it.

As I suspect you know, I find no justification for violence and oppression by any means, against any target.

Nevertheless, I find the 1 in 10 figure (10%) brutal, antagonistic and inaccurate. Men are not the enemy.

There is a sub-group in any class that are responsible for 99% of most crimes, they're prolific and repetitive. It applies to theft, robbery, and sexual misconduct.

In a random sample that excludes these individuals, you'll find that men are reliable, tedious, and unthreatening.

It staggers me that 'women' would find alternative perceptions for political gain, because we have to get along!

[annaj]

I don't think the campaign is about political gain or demonising men in general.

It's about overcoming apathy and raising awareness of how common sexual violence and rape are.

No-one is suggesting that all men are rapists, that would be offensive and preposterous, but the truth is that sexual violence is used against women all over the world in many settings, for many reasons and it's entirely unacceptable.

[RosieH]

Thanks annaj - the campaign is building up to International Women's Day on March 8th.

Huguenot, I'm with Anna on not being sure what point you were orignally making, and the relevance to raising awareness of the issue of sexual and domestic violence?

If we're talking personal anecdotes, I could counter yours with very personal experience of sustained psychological, domestic and sexual violence, but that wouldn't prove anything either. Just one story in a sea of many - utterly subjective and leading to heightened emotions.

This isn't an anti-man campaign. Speaking for myself, I'm rather in favour of men. Nor is it at the expense of man - it's not about saying that violence against men doesn't matter. But it is about raising awareness of an issue that disproportionately affects women, and putting that awareness to good use. For instance, London only has one Rape Crisis Centre, it needs more.

edited because I took longer than necessary to post this and missed other posts in the interim

[Huguenot]

No Rosie, your argument is wasted. This thread says 'One in Ten'.

The thread takes a political angle that 'one in ten' is guilty of a crime.

I appreciate your angle (and I love all of your posts), but you presume a percentage responsibility.

It's outrageous, and unsustained. It is by definition polarised, and it excludes reasonable men.

[Huguenot]

I demur...

one in ten what?

[SteveT]

I wonder what percentage of innocent men have been 'ravaged' through the divorce courts?

[annaj]

one in ten what?

Fairly clear in the original post and link I thought.

Each year, 1 in 10 women in Britain experience rape or other violence

What did you think it meant?

[RosieH]

Huguenot (oh, and thank you - I love all your posts too - apart from the ones where you disagree with me!)

I fully accept that it's a shocking statistic and that, because of the nature of the crimes, it could be interpreted as an attack on men, but it isn't meant to be. It's not saying that 1 in 10 men commits these crimes, but that 1 in 10 women is a victim of such crimes. That's not just semantics, but a genuine difference.

The figure is shocking, but that's because the reality is shocking. And some people do need to be shocked out of their complacency (so that rape is properly reported and prosecuted, out of thinking that domestic violence is a crime only committed by Jeremy Kyle's audience members, out of thinking that FGM couldn't happen here - and certainly out of calling it female circumcision which goes no way to describing the horror and butchery it entails).

Shock is what gets people talking about it and thinking about it and hopefully changing things.

[Mikecg]

It goes both ways, what about battered husbands?

http://fmwf.com/newsarticle.php?id=1463&cat=6

[RosieH]

F*ck 'em, they're only men.

No wait, hang on, Mikecg, I refer you to the 4th post on the thread.

[bignumber5]

RosieH, I think some of the responses above are misunderstanding you or trying to be controversial (at least I hope they are - the alternative, that they mean what they're posting, is too worrying to comprehend) but at least every time someone ignorantly compares rape or domestic abuse to a perceived divorce court imbalance, it bumps this thread back to the top of page one.

Well done for raising awareness to an important campaign.

And muppets, I don't think RosieH is suggesting that male victims of abuse are any less entitled to support, but you don't walk into a support group for ovarian cancer and say that they're disregarding the needs of those with testicular tumours, do you?

[annaj]

I'm utterly baffled by the responses on this thread.

Are people really saying that they disagree with, or begrudge, a campaign to provide more support services for women who have suffered rape, sexual violence and assault? Really? Because that's how it reads and that's.... well.. bonkers.

Do any of you actually know what so called female circumcision (more accurately called female genital mutilation) involves? Or how common it is in some cultures still?

I really don't understand.

[dulwichdreadlocks]

I've read that it is something like one in four women who have been sexually assaulted during their childhood or adult lives.

[Mikecg]

Boycotted because I am male and no matter what any bloke says it will always be wrong even if sympathetic......

[Mick Mac]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I had female bosses for thirteen of the fifteen

> years that I worked for anyone else. On the whole

> I found female bosses to be more vindictive, more

> invidious, more intimidating and more humiliating

> than I ever witnessed men to be.

>

> I found women to be far more capable of inflicting

> sustained psychological violence over a period of

> years than men ever would.

>

Huguenot - first time I have read this thread and I could not agree more with the points you have made here. I have been working for a female boss for 8 years (until last year) and I would catagorise this person as a psychological bully during the first 2-3 years, although after that our roles thankfully diversified, giving her less influence. She now has a new female assistant and this person is on the edge after only 1 year or working for this lady.

Ladies may think this point patronising, and its not really intended to be, but in general the nicest women will mostly marry and have children and hopefully be happy doing this, the ones we are left with in the workplace, especially the finance and legal professions, can be the most difficult types and not a true reflection of the qualities woman can bring to the workplace.

However referring to the main point of the thread - all rape and/or violence against women, men, children or anyones else is unforgivable. Rape is a terrible crime and women are the most frequent victims, they cannot really defend themselves despite self defence classes or whatever so men cannot really understand what it must be like to feel this insecurity.

Yes, men do suffer physical and psychological violence, but if this happens in a domestic relationship, I as a man would vote with my feet. In the workplace its more difficult and you may need to work through it otherwise your career prospects can be seriously affected. It can however be very damaging if not addressed.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I had female bosses for thirteen of the fifteen

> years that I worked for anyone else. On the whole

> I found female bosses to be more vindictive, more

> invidious, more intimidating and more humiliating

> than I ever witnessed men to be.

>

> There's an excuse that they had to be 'stronger'

> to be equally successful, but on the whole I found

> them vicious and arbitrary.

>

> I found women to be far more capable of inflicting

> sustained psychological violence over a period of

> years than men ever would. Men tend to be more

> abrupt, more physical and more limited than women.

> Men have this competitive encounter resolved in

> moments, whereas women seemed to destroy others

> over tens of years.

>

> I've seen encounters where groups of otherwise

> friendly fellers have been driven into conflict be

> competitive girlfrieds.

>

> I've found that 'let it go' runs better with men

> than women.

Huguenot: "Tony old chap, if you make assumptions about someone because of their race, that's racist.

If you want to know if a guys is homophobic or not, you have to ask him. You can't hang him for the crime because of the colour of his skin"....

Huguenot you wrote that to me only the other day, so allow me to paraphrase this, in light of your comments above...

TLS: "Huguenot old chap, if you make assumptions about someone because of their gender, that's sexist.

If you want to know if a Lady is (vindictive/invidious/humilating), you have to discover that. You can't hang her for the crime because of the gender that she happens to be".....

[Tony.London Suburbs]

What did Billy Shakespeare say about being "Hoist By Your Own Petard!":)-D

[Mikecg]

My new boss is a woman and I'm dreading it! atleast I'll be able to blind her with science.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I will say one thing though, after working in many, varied environments and Establishments since 1971.

If you can find a Woman Boss (outside the areas of PR/Advertising) with a good sense of humour then you are a better Man than me, Gungedin..I never came across one in 38 years, thus far...