Lively dogs and little kids - Peckham Rye Park

[Louisa]

Can I also propose for the vast majority of law abiding dog owners if you come across said whiny irritating middle class blow-ins and their kids, who can't tell the difference between a friendly dog wanting to interact and an aggressive one, then it may be advisable to tell these poshos to "do one" if they start wailing uncontrollably at the site of a wagging tailed pooch approaching to say hello? Or at the very least, don't bother apologising to these bizarre people who clearly live on a different planet to the rest of us, also known as "cloudcuckooland". If this doesnt work then a two fingered salute may also suffice (to the adult of course). Same applies to posh bell end joggers with their heads firmly stuck up their backsides, running around the park like they're doing the marathon and whinging at the site of a dog coming over to say hello. Don't like sharing the park with a friendly dog and its friendly owner? Then go for a walk somewhere else, preferably miles away from anywhere the rest of us can see you.

Now back to the real world.

Louisa.

[Otta]

Great thread.

Love your work Louisa.

[????]

Nah, it's just tedious now

[Louisa]

Doesn't stop you posting though does it quids? ;-)

Louisa.

[FJDGoose]

Otta Wrote:

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> Great thread.

>

> Love your work Louisa.

Work ??!

[dwe]

You are like a cross between a Viz character and Wolfie Smith, only funnier.

[Coco22]

Well hi all,

Was quite a surprise to log back in to 6 pages of debate! If Im honest I wasn?t intending it to be a debate ? it was more of a polite request, but let me clarify a few things

Firstly, made me laugh lots, but whats all this stuff about middle class namby pamby nonsense? Im a 43 year old ex boxer from East Croydon !!!!!(currently unemployed if you must know!!!) Im as far away from middle class as you can get trust me!!!!!

Secondly, to the person who wants to tell me to my face that my 4 year old son needs to ?man up? when a huge dog jumps all around him and barks in his face when hes calmly walking home from school on path at side of the park, then by all means do private message me the where and when- Id be happy to facilitate this meeting ;-)

No seriously though, I assure you my son is far from nanmy pamby. He meets dogs all the time and is fine with them. Both the occasions I?m referring to Id describe the dogs actions as quite aggressive (especially to a 4 year old!), and it certainly wasn?t under the owners control. My only action was to scoop my boy up to reassure him, and then look around for the owner.

Im not scared of dogs and Im not sure how a parent comforting their child can be interpreted as me instilling a fear of dogs in him! To be honest I did try a call to say ?don?t worry hes just saying hello? but itd gone to far ? he was panicking/ dog barking and chasing him in circles/ so I quickly figured best to pick him up and then try and educate him from there, which I did mention I think. If you are a parent Id hope you understand why I did this!

Again if Im honest Id have been up for the owner calming the dog down and letting my boy see his was friendly to help with this education but I found the owners attitude didn?t really allow for this- in my case a middle aged woman who was incredibly defensive when I asked ?is this your dog?. She was shouting for the dog but from miles away so I did know it was hers so I guess my question was yes in expectation of an apology..but no ?and to be honest she still couldn?t calm the dog down even when she caught up! My sons take on it was "that wasnt a friendly doggie was it daddy"!

I had the same kind of reaction from the owner of a previous dog and I didn?t say anything at the time ? again a lady who just slowly walked up. She saw it feverishly sticking its head in my sons school bag and jumping up (the bag was on his back!), the dog was going bonkers and the situation only ended as the dog carried on being bonkers in another direction!. That one was outside the cafe. Again, clearly the owner had no control, and on both occasions I was left feeling pretty miffed (son crying in my arms, not even an apology and just attitude)

For this reason I made what I though was a polite request on here for those with ?lively? dogs (not all dogs) to be conscious of this kind of thing and maybe have them on a long lead or whatever until trained. Yes Ill promise to keep my kids well behaved too (hes not so easy to train in some areas either trust me!)!

On a final note- and in attempt to keep things positive ? I must inform you there was a lovely lady who private messaged me asking if she'd like my son to meet her dog in the park, to help him get over any fear. I politely declined as I don?t think he is that fearful (clearly I gave that impression in my original post to be fair, so sorry for that as not the case).

Anyway, to her, and to the people who made serious comments of understanding (or tried to), and more importantly to any ?lively? dog owners who read this and say ?fair enough Ill be more mindful in future?= thankyou!

All the best

Ty

[Earl Aelfheah]

Great post Ty

[oimissus]

excellent post Ty, thanks for coming back. Interesting the sweeping generalisations some idiots take from posts that turn out to be way off the mark...

[rodneybewes]

actuarygi Wrote:

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> that is because all the indentation was gone when

> it was posted.

Ah, that would explain it. I actually thought it was a poem when I first saw it.

[Blah Blah]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It's what the middle classes do. Vent. Moan.

> > Mostly about stuff that wouldnt bother anyone

> > else. I hate what this area is becoming.

> >

> > Louisa.

>

>

> Must say, I find myself in agreement with Louisa.

I agree too. Don't know if it's what the area is becoming but it's certainly a key feature of EDF. Like many forums, seems to attract the slightest hint of inconveniance over common sense.

[Blah Blah]

Good response coco.

[BrandNewGuy]

Vet: Now what can I do for you?

EDF Admin: It's this thread about dogs. I think you might have to put it out of its misery.

Vet: Well, let's take a look first and see if there's anything we can do. Hmmm, signs of class warfare, unreasonableness, flouncing and being called a wanker. Oh dear, I see what you mean.

EDF Admin: So it's hopeless?

Vet: I'm afraid so. Would you like one last look at it?

EDF Admin: No thanks, it would be too painful...

[Administrator]

I was going to Lounge this thread due to it becoming predictably overcast with the usual class-warfare drizzle, however that most excellent post from Coco22 saved saved the day and now the sun's out. Let's keep it that way please.

[FJDGoose]

Top post BNG :)

[Hagrid]

One last post, as a dog owner who walks in Dulwich park, thought you'd appreciate the comment passed to me last week by a middle aged owner about their 10 month old spaniel, that "he wasn't sleeping through, and they had to bring in a dog sitter to put him to bed during the night" Mad parenting has now passed to canines....

[Louisianna2012]

Coco22

Whilst being gobsmacked at some of the responses to your post, I think you have been very fair about your reaction to the dogs and I think your advice to your child is sensible. The law states that dogs should be under cotrol - there are FAR too many dog owners who really dont have a clue or a care about their dogs behaviour. Its very frustrating.

Yes, a park is for humans, children and dogs. And all should be 'under control' and not causing upset, havoc, fear, or any other negative outcome.

Dont be afraid to shout to the owner to call their dog away and get it under control - and if they fail to - dont be afraid to report them to the warden!

I am a dog owner myself.

[ErynMG]

I am a dog owner, mother and dog trainer who specialises in safety of children around dogs. One of my clients brought this thread to my attention and I just wanted to reiterate some of the positive things other posters have said.

How you reacted with your son Coco22 was absolutely the best thing possible, as after all you are his dad and know what is best for him. No one else has the right to tell you otherwise, also it would not instill fear of dogs in your son at all, it would only reinforce that you have control of the situation, keeping him safe as his dad.

Dog's can't calmly talk to us to say they are over excited or uncomfortable (if they are scared) or push us off with their hands and as they use their mouths to communicate clearly, when they are around children who aren't confident with dogs disasters can and do happen. Yes there are new dog laws in place which state that all dogs in both private and public places need to be kept under control but they are very ambiguous too as people's interpretation of what is 'under control' is vast.

Ultimately if a dog makes you feel like you are in serious danger of being hurt then it can be classified as being 'out of control' this only means that you could try to build a case against the dog but if the owner can exhibit otherwise then there is no case. Any responsible dog owner in Peckham Rye should have a reliable recall before letting it off lead especially when they can run out into the road so easily. They are off lead around families and young children and if you and your son and decided to move away from the dog and across the road quickly the dog could have easily been hit by a car and I doubt the owner would be arguing about it being under control then.

I teach children about what to do to be safe around dogs, so that accidents don't happen with the children or the dogs, giving the children confidence that they can control their surroundings and stay safe if they do get a fright. It always surprises me how many adults don't know what to do and how many dog owners let their dogs off lead without any second thought.

One of my dogs is deaf, he can be off lead, is trained to check in with me however I shout out to children to stop and slow down who run up to him thinking he is cute, to try and stroke him, as I don't want him startled or frightened, they can approach calmly so that he has a chance to see them first. So it works both ways with dogs and children.

[first mate]

We are lucky to have a number of good puppy training classes locally. South Eastern Dog Training is the longest established and is Kennel Club accredited, they offer training at all levels.

For anyone who wants behaviour work go to someone qualified. The professional body for uk canine behaviourists is a good place to start at www.tcbts.co.uk

[Blah Blah]

"as after all you are his dad and know what is best for him. No one else has the right to tell you otherwise"

And the world is full of parents that also think they know what is best for their kids when they abuse them. To suggest that being a parent automatically makes a person beyond reproach is nonsense. Not relevant to the parent in question here I know, but just thought the point should be made. You can't talk in such absolute terms.

"Ultimately if a dog makes you feel like you are in serious danger of being hurt then it can be classified as being 'out of control' "

No it can't. The law deals in fact, not perception. Many people have irrational and unfounded fears. The dog didn't bite anyone. It wasn't snarling or barking. There was no indication that anyone was in serious danger from it. The father made a judgement call that he thought was right according to his perspective, that's all.

[Barred]

The parks are for everybody dogs as we'll

[DuncanW]

Massively off the thread there Blah Blah - who else is talking about people abusing children?

Why do you take that statement in such absolute terms, or as saying the parent in this instance is beyond reproach?

I think you have read a bit too much into that one.

"as after all you are his dad and know what is best for him. No one else has the right to tell you otherwise"

And the world is full of parents that also think they know what is best for their kids when they abuse them. To suggest that being a parent automatically makes a person beyond reproach is nonsense. Not relevant to the parent in question here I know, but just thought the point should be made. You can't talk in such absolute terms.

[titch juicy]

Surely it's just absolutely the most basic common sense that dogs should be kept on leads if they can't be controlled?

This thread has focused almost exclusively on kids being scared of dogs, but what about those adults that are?

Personally I love dogs and will approach any that pass me by (to my detriment in the past after being bitten), but lots of people don't like them (my mum for example) and some are terrified by them.

Dog owners absolutely have a responsibility to ensure that they abide by relevant laws and keep their dogs under control.

Peckham Rye park is particularly bad for this. I've seen dogs off the lead being allowed to walk free in the cafe while the owner looks on laughing as if it's such a cute quirky thing for their beloved to do. Funnily enough this also goes for parents and their kids who are allowed to run around free in the cafe creating havoc, "Oh, they're so cute and independent", "no they're not, they're feral"

At the end of the day it's about common sense and respect.

[Blah Blah]

Read the post I replied to again Duncan. It contains statements made in absolute terms that can not possibly be stated as such. It said that the parent can not have his perspective questioned, because he is the parent and knows better than everyone else, and then goes on to apply the lightest of excuses for classifying a dog as 'out of control'. I illustrated my point with examples, but made it clear I wasn't applying any parallel with those examples.

The dog owner has been described as all sorts of things here, with no representation. I'd like to consider the other perspective because in my experience, the truth is more often than not, somewhere between the two.

And to be fair, the parent has further explained that he picked up his child because the child was scared. Nowhere has he said the dog tried to bite anyone, or was barking or showing anything that says anything more than play to me.

Contrast that with another thread on here where a dog was attacked and mauled by two collies. See the difference between a dog intent on causing harm, and boisterous play?

It's a park. Dog owners are perfectly free to let their dogs off the lead and those dogs should be able to run about, because they need exercise for good health. There are areas of the park where dogs are required to be on a lead for those genuinely concerned for their safety.

I've lost count of all the balls that have been nicked by dogs in that park when I play with my kids. Dogs like to chase balls. They think it's fun. What a sad person I would be if every time that happened I vented frustration on the owner and described their dog as out of control.

[DaveR]

" "Ultimately if a dog makes you feel like you are in serious danger of being hurt then it can be classified as being 'out of control' "

No it can't. The law deals in fact, not perception"

This is wrong. The relevant statute includes a definition:

"For the purposes of this Act a dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person"

So an irrational belief that you are in danger won't do, but it is (definitively) a question of perception. And it goes without saying that it is the perception of the person who is in the presence of the dog that matters, not the perception of someone posting on an internet forum who thinks they know better.