Is it true? (message from Admin) (Lounged)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Brendan & candj

Absolutely agree with you but I'm not trying to make the case that it came exclusively from religion nor white society - i am merely countering Tony Burbs argument that only the black community have such attitudes - I was just widening the target area

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Do you not think it might possibly have stemmed from religion since the Bible, the Koran and other holy books usually do state that homosexuality is wrong and from day one, most countries have been ruled and still are ruled according to the faith they follow? So hence why even today though probably in the modern world we might not be as religious as we were, it is still innate from childhood and our churches/mosques that homosexuality is wrong?

[candj]

Okie dokie Sean, I do see your point. Besides, shouldn't we all be in the lounge discussing this...?;-)

[Brendan]

HeidiHi Wrote:

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> Do you not think it might possibly have stemmed

> from religion since the Bible, the Koran and other

> holy books usually do state that homosexuality is

> wrong and from day one, most countries have been

> ruled and still are ruled according to the faith

> they follow? So hence why even today though

> probably in the modern world we might not be as

> religious as we were, it is still innate from

> childhood and our churches/mosques that

> homosexuality is wrong?

No. Go travel around Africa and you will see that homophobia is deeply entrenched in cultures that make no use of the Bible or Koran. It is more of a common human prejudice that existed prior to it ever being formalised for us in the Abrahamic scriptures.

[Administrator]

Indeed, I am now going to move this discussion to the Lounge area where it may continue. Just for your information the user Halal_face AKA Felicity Normal AKA postmodern AKA moving2dulwich's last post was:

"I just wanted to let you all know that EDF is a forum of White Supremacist Snakes who actively attack and ridicule black people. Several EDF members are in the BNP (I can name names if you wish). Speak out against these racist snakes and you instantly get banned from the EDF forum. Note for Admin: feel free to ban me from your White Supremacist site. PS: The ES are doing a little piece on the Forum next week. Sieg Heil!"

[halal_face]

-- moved topic --

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Blimey! How dramatic is that? As a mixed race person, I have never felt that way about the EDF.

Even if people on here are members of the BNP, what is to say our neighbour, shopkeeper, work colleague is not a member either?

[candj]

Crikey!

[Brendan]

Yeah the term, hysterical springs to mind doesn?t it.

[*Bob*]

It's no wonder trolls do well on here.

There'll be another one along presently. Expect much of the same.

[citizenED]

Thanks Admin. Think it is important to reveal that. Wow. Can hardly believe that this humble little site could elicit such a acidic response. Wow.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

i am merely countering Tony Burbs argument that only the black community have such attitudes -

Now Sean I DO expect better from you M8! (excuse my irritation but I have just "lost" a lengthy reply to every one of Huguenot's points to me!)........anyway and sorry to do this but, its CAPITAL LETTERS time as my point seems to be missed here Guys....

I said that A HIGHER RATIO OR PROPORTION of The UK Afro-Caribbean Community are Homophobic.

I have REPEATEDLY made the samecomment on here. That does NOT mean that "every" Member oreven the "majority" of Members of that Community are Homophobic.

It does NOT mean Homophobia is exclusive to that Community, other Communities might also have a proportion of Homophobic individuals to some extent.

It DOES mean., that a higher ratio or proportion of The UK Afro-Caribbean Community are Homophobic, in my opinion than other UK Communities.

[Mikecg]

Well TLS when you think about it god made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.:))

[Brendan]

I don?t know so much Tony (Although I wouldn?t claim to be an expert). It may seem that way in London surrounded by cosmopolitan uber liberals but if you head out into the Home Counties you certainly start to encounter higher levels of homophobia.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> TLS you still can make no assumptions about

> individuals in any particular racial group apart

> from the fact that a different group of people you

> asked answered in a particular way to a particular

> question at a particular time in a particular

> environment.

>

> That's claiming that 'because your mates are

> homophobic and share your skin colour, you must be

> homophobic'.

Not at all but if, hypothetically, a large enough percentage of people within any UK Race hold, roughly, the same viewpint then there's a real likelihoodthen the next Guy will to, but you won't "know" until you find out by asking, if you meet them.

>

> Even the respondents may change their mind over

> time.>

> The point is about drawing inferences about an

> individual based on your experiences of people of

> a similar racial background.>

> If the first Inuit you see mugs you for your

> mobile, you can't imprison the next on the grounds

> that you've got a 100% criminal rate in the sum of

> your experiences so far.

I have made a consistent point of referring to large samples (like "100,000") obviously one thing, in isolation, means nothing at all. However if 95,000 Members of The Inuit Community mugged me out of 100,000 Members that I meet then its safe to assume that I will be holding my belongings a little tighter the next time I bump into an Inuit (asyoudo:)))

>

> On race and culture you're already in hot water:

> sharing racial characteristics doesn't mean you

> share culture. It is ridiculous to claim that

> Ainsley Harriot, Barack Obama and Thomas Lubanga

> share culture regarding homophobia, family values

> or religion.

I was referring to The UK Afro-Caribbean Community only and their general views on Homosexuality.

>

> It's not racist to note cultural differences, but it is racist to extrapolate from the individual to the general.

I understand your point.

>

> In your example above you use one extremist

> website that supports your prejudices to cast

> aspersions on the entire afro-carribean community.

> You argue that because you've found it here, it

> applies to everyone of similar racial descent.

> That's racism.

Its NOT an "extreme" Website, thats the whole point! If it was then I would ignore their views. They would be as irrelevant as Stormfrnt or a Far-Right Site. That Site is no more "extreme" than this one.

Its a UK Based Site for Black people and their Members are Worldwide, but mainly based in The UK and are from all walks of life.

Huguenot, I gave a lengthy reply to all your points above but they have got lost in Cyberspace, and, for once, I did not "cut 'n paste" them "just in case"...so I have only given a brief version of what I originally said.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Brendan Wrote:

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> I don?t know so much Tony (Although I wouldn?t

> claim to be an expert). It may seem that way in

> London surrounded by cosmopolitan uber liberals

> but if you head out into the Home Counties you

> certainly start to encounter higher levels of

> homophobia.

True, undoubtedly.

[seamusmac]

I have been following this thread and am surprised that people have been drawn into an argument instigated by a shit stir masquerading as a forumite AKA Felicity Normal, postmodern, moving2dulwich and halal face. If this is going to be the subject matter for an ES article then it will be a sad indictment of British journalism.

[Keef]

Bloody hell, I know Felicity "Normal" was a troll, but that post was still shocking! Agree that it was correct to share it, and hopefully anyone else spouting such bile will think twice.

[red devil]

I have already spoken to my lawyer as to what action I should take should the ES imply that I am a satanic worshipping communist...

[*Bob*]

seamusmac Wrote:

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> I have been following this thread and am surprised

> that people have been drawn into an argument

> instigated by a shit stir masquerading as a

> forumite AKA Felicity Normal, postmodern,

> moving2dulwich and halal face.

Why? People on here are still discussing 'as fact' a fictitious incident on a bus that doesn't exist.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

taper Wrote:

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> Tony has been quiet for a while on the subject of

> race, but he is unhealthily obsessed with it.

> When he first came on the site, having implored us

> all to all to move to Welling with its "British

> feel", he got into hot water with posters linking

> crime and race. Then he and I had a spat about

> race and athletic prowess (and dancing I think).

> And now he's suggesting there's a link between

> race and attitudes towards homosexuality, praying

> (as he often does) "Blacknet" in aid of his case.

taper: For the record, I know facts are not going to change your view but I have made 1,655 posts on here and "relatively" few have mentioned Race. That will NOT stop you believing that I am "unhealthily obsessed" but I will say one thing.

For 30 years(possibly a shade less) I have mixed freely with The Black Community, through choice.

I have socialised with so many Black Ladies (in particular) ....I have lived with 6 Members of that Community, including a Jamaican Lady at the moment).

My work has meant mixing freely with Members of that Community, most work days for 20 years.

I am someone who will, even in 2009, talk to complete strangers on Public Transport and the responses from The Black Community have, overall, been the most engaging. Most are "down-to=earth" just like "moi";-) so it DOES irritate me when others fail to note "the bleedin' obvious" for fear of causing offence, and for other reasons.

As to your post above, I am not going into the merits and comparisons regarding Athletic Prowess or Dancing abilities again but its safe to say that most Black people I know think Whites are inferior at short distance running, "in general" and that if a Dance Competition was held with a large enough Group of people that THEIR money would be on The Black Dancers having more style and rhythm, "as a group" with individual exceptions, either way. I think I can safely say that they, "ingeneral", believe that, and..........I DO TOO !;-)

> This is a common theme for Tony. And no matter how many times you try to explain to him that this has nothing to do with with race and that, while his views might be innocently held, they are offensive, he will not be told.

No-one is seeking to offend but to not note certain differences in beliefs and culture over a long period of time in different communities living in the same area either shows:

1/ An "ostrich" Mentality or

2/ An "ostrich" Mentality.

[Moos]

HeidiHi Wrote:

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> Blimey! How dramatic is that? As a mixed race

> person, I have never felt that way about the EDF.

> Even if people on here are members of the BNP,

> what is to say our neighbour, shopkeeper, work

> colleague is not a member either?

HeidiHi, I think it's pretty safe to say that the poster was just making that up. Although since there were I think a few votes for the BNP in the last local elections, it's likely that there are residents of ED that are members. Obviously, we don't know if any are forumites. I'd like to hope not, but one doesn't know.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

*Bob* Wrote:

Why? People on here are still discussing 'as fact' a fictitious incident on a bus that doesn't exist.

At least break it to us gently "Bob" :'(..you mean it was all a ruse about the shopping trolley on the Double-Decker 436 with that nice Conducter?...and I said, like Roger Daltrey, that I won't get fooled again....