Is it true? (message from Admin) (Lounged)

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

candj Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HeidiHi Wrote:

>

>

>

> And English people do have bad teeth, haven't you

> seen the British Book of Smiles? ;-)

My teeth are lovely!:'( white and straight! So British people do have bad teeth then? damn! :)

I still defy you to find as many British forums and message boards that are expressive in their views and who uses frequent racist terms in their postings than their american counterparts.

Oh, and whilst you are at it, find as many British actors, actresses, models, rappers, singers, films, songs, etc that make an issue out of race as much as their american counterpart, and then I will shut up. Maybe I keep hearing all the wrong songs, I watch all the wrong programmes and films when it comes to being made in the USA whereas I seems to pick all the right British songs , films and programmes because they very rarely mention their race. Eastenders last week was the first time colour has been mentioned.

[karter]

What a long read, changing from dodgy posters to racism. This should be broken up. Emma Frost is definitely the hottest looking member of the admin team.::o

edited cos i can't read.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

True Karter, it has dragged on a bit eh? I have no idea who Emma Frost is though!

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Does make me laugh after experiencing and witnessing all that I have in my 54 years when "some" people deny that there are not blatant differences in Culture between Racial Groups sometimes!:)

Take right now..there is a thread n "Blacknet. Co. UK" which asks:-

"What if your chld was homosexual?" enquiring how Parents would react on discovering that was the case.

The replies, thus far, are along the lines of :

"but like I said before it aint gonna happen.....may as well have a convo about what would happen if we wont the lotto this comming saturday."....and that view has already been seconded.

I'll make a confident prediction that hardly anyone will be "brave" enough to go entirely against the grain and say that they will not mind at all.

So far, someone thankfully has.

If that same question was posed on here is anyone seriously telling me that the opposite would not occur and that the overwhelming majority of us would still not cherish and love our child just as much whatever their sexual orientation?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I would!! I would adore my kid still if it was gay, I might raised an eyebrow at first because I suppose most of us will automatically presume it will go for the opposite sex since this is innate in us, but hey, as quickly as that raised eyebrow went up, it would go back down again and I would just accept it.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Absolutely HeidiHi !

There's already the implication that they would be disowned on that other Site and now some Male posters over there are avoiding the question by denying that it could possibly happen.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Do you think it is more the males that might have an issue to it instead of a female due to I don't know their manhood being at risk if they state they would be fine with it?

I ask because my ex when I told him I had a gay uncle and a boss who is a transexual acted all disgusted and kept going on about how he did not want to meet them, it is not catching and people are not going to think he is gay because he is talking to a gay person! I just get the impression men find they will be judged if they say they are cool with homosexuality by their male counterparts.

[karter]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> True Karter, it has dragged on a bit eh? I have no

> idea who Emma Frost is though!

From Marvel comics Heidi, i think Jean Grey is more powerful though.;-)click

[pk]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does make me laugh after experiencing and

> witnessing all that I have in my 54 years when

> "some" people deny that there are not blatant

> differences in Culture between Racial Groups

> sometimes!:)

>

> Take right now..there is a thread n "Blacknet. Co.

> UK" which asks:-

>

> "What if your chld was homosexual?" enquiring how

> Parents would react on discovering that was the

> case.

>

> The replies, thus far, are along the lines of :

>

> "but like I said before it aint gonna

> happen.....may as well have a convo about what

> would happen if we wont the lotto this comming

> saturday."....and that view has already been

> seconded.

>

> I'll make a confident prediction that hardly

> anyone will be "brave" enough to go entirely

> against the grain and say that they will not mind

> at all.

> So far, someone thankfully has.

>

> If that same question was posed on here is anyone

> seriously telling me that the opposite would not

> occur and that the overwhelming majority of us

> would still not cherish and love our child just as

> much whatever their sexual orientation?

so what's the point of this?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

karter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HeidiHi Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > True Karter, it has dragged on a bit eh? I have

> no

> > idea who Emma Frost is though!

>

> From Marvel comics Heidi, i think Jean Grey is

> more powerful though.;-)click

Thank Goodness for google!! Looks like the new X men will feature Emma Frost who will be played by Tahyna Tozzi! Love my X Men movies! I can see you are a huge comic fan!!

[Tony.London Suburbs]

pk Wrote: so what's the point of this?

....to demonstrate that while we are all individuals and should be judged accordingly, there are differences in the way differing Racial Groups can, in general, perceive and regard different situations sometimes, which some people seem to not believe or deny occurs..

[SeanMacGabhann]

Not sure about that one Tony. Cultural differences can be vast, wrong and incendiary. But racially all humans start from a broadly similar place. Confusing race and culture is one of the main mistakes racists make I would argue. Could be a typo on your part tho

[pk]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk Wrote: so what's the point of this?

>

> ....to demonstrate that while we are all

> individuals and should be judged accordingly,

> there are differences in the way differing Racial

> Groups can, in general, perceive and regard

> different situations sometimes, which some people

> seem to not believe or deny occurs..

so you are saying that black people are generally homophobic, and using a very small self selected group as 'evidence'?

and are you saying that this page is different from 'them'?

not denying that cultural differences exist sometimes to some extent in some regards, but any conclusions and generalisations drawn should be based on fact - i am sure that if you spent a minute some 'white' pages you could just as easily find people saying some racist and/or homophobic things

[Tony.London Suburbs]

pk Wrote:

so you are saying that black people are generally homophobic, and using a very small self selected group as 'evidence'?

I'm sorry to say but a resounding Yes!

There will be endless references to demonstrate this on the net, for example.

A much greater proportion of Black Guys of Afro-Caribbean descent are homophobic (not "every" Guy)...

Thats well-documented. There's a positive plethora of sources to show this on the net.

The Black Comedian Stephen K. Amos did a Documentary last year when he went to chat to some Gay Guys in Jamaica and had to go undercover the whole time, in 2008!...then they showed him in a Brixton Comedy Club going down a storm, until he revealed that he was Gay...stony-faced silence and embarassment ensued thereafter.

pk: and are you saying that this page is different from 'them'?

Yes! There will be a far higher ratio and proportion of people on here who would be more tolerant and less Homophobic, I could not be more certain of that M8.

pk: not denying that cultural differences exist sometimes to some extent in some regards, but any conclusions and generalisations drawn should be based on fact - i am sure that if you spent a minute some 'white' pages you could just as easily find people saying some racist and/or homophobic.

There ARE racists and Homophobic people, no doubt, in all Groups but it is far, far more widespread in the Black Community. Any Black person wil confirm that, I'm certain.

Here's a small example:

"Violence and the law

Jamaica has been deemed one of the most virulently homophobic countries in the world where homophobes will throw rocks first and ask questions later. Gays living in Jamaica have to keep a low profile as there have been incidents where people have been stoned to death merely on the suspicion that of being gay. When a gay group proposed a march through the centre of Kingston to protest against homophobia, the machete factories on the island ran out of stock, needless to say that march was quickly abandoned. Violence against gay men in our country is widely advocated by a wide cross-section of our society. Actions are very extreme and inhumane with people going as far a to through sewage on them. Politicians ridicule them, the general public "bun dem", policemen abuse, harass and embarrass them. "

I'm passing no comment but its undeniable that Jamaicans (and most other Caribbean Islanders) are much more homophobic than most other people.

I'm pretty sure Homosexuality in Jamaica is still illegal for a start!...In 2009 !

[Keef]

Jeremy's post on page 1 pretty much sums it all up perfectly for me.

[Huguenot]

Racism is about drawing inferences or assumptions about someone based on their race.

It's not racist (but may be statistically wrong) to observe that a high proportion of a individuals from a particular racial background may be homophobic, but it is racist to assume that someone is likely to be homophobic because of their race.

The most pernicious opinions are those that attempt to argue that some assumptions about an individual are okay simply because a particular trait is pervasive (or even dominant) in those from a particular racial background. This includes arguments about undercover detectives and comedy clubs.

They're nasty because they try and construct an argument that it is okay to make assumptions and construct prejudices about someone so long as the percentages are high enough.

It's not. It's racist. There's no cloudy area.

The same applies to people who argue that people from ED have a particular political affiliation, or that people on this forum have a particular attitude to baby shops.

It's just prejudice. It's poisonous and divisive, it's a weapon used by the petty to split communities and gain influence amongst stupid people.

(For any still wondering about a previous thread... it is not racist to observe that a criminal was black, it is racist to assume that if someone was black they are a criminal. This isn't a subtle distinction.)

[lenk]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> lenk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > How come it's OK for all those rappers to use

> the

> > 'N-Word' in their compositions, yet when I use

> it

> > at my son's football match I get asked to leave

> > the pitch?

> >

> > As usual, it's one rule for multi-million

> selling

> > rappers, one rule for the rest of us.

>

>

> Well, if you are a black man calling another black

> person on the pitch the N word, I am sure it is

> fine if these rappers are anything to go by, but

> if you are white, tut tut, shame on you!

Sorry, it was a joke half-remembered from Viz about 10 years ago.

I don't have a son and obviously wouldn't do that....

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I knew you were joking, I was joking also as I don't think it is right for rappers to call each other that either. It is either an offensive word or it is not, so I don't understand why it is acceptable for them to say it to each other when they would be angry if someone else who is not black said that to them.

[pk]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They're nasty because they try and construct an

> argument that it is okay to make assumptions and

> construct prejudices about someone so long as the

> percentages are high enough.

>

and in fact they generally have no idea of what those percentages are anyway

[citizenED]

Couldn't agree more with Huguenot's post. Succinctly and powerfully put, sir.

BTW I'm reading this thread with interest and don't agree that it ought to be wound up yet. Halal-Face obviously said something worthy of censure in the OP but all the same the question to be answered is whether or not this forum can be construed as racist in any way.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

It's not racist (but may be statistically wrong) to observe that a high proportion of a individuals from a particular racial background may be homophobic, but it is racist to assume that someone is likely to be homophobic because of their race.

I really can't agree with this at all.

Hypothetically if 100,000 Members of a Race (any Race) were asked a question about any Subject (positive or negative) and 95,000 all replied the same way, then its fair to assume that the next person one asks of the same Race will reply the same way. Given that would be a very large sample and 19 out of every 20 replied the same way its only natural to assume the next Guy will also hold the same viewpoint.

That, of course does NOT mean that "every" Member of that particular Race will reply that way or that there are not Members of other Races who will also reply that way but in my hypothetical example the Guys replying differently would be the "exceptions to the rule" so how can that be "Racist" to form a clear view of that Racial Groups general view of a Subject when nearly everyone thinks or talks or acts the same way?

[AllforNun]

let me get this straight ...are you saying

That i could observe that most of the newer arrivals in ED are liberal leaning fascist's with terrible taste buds and a penchant for badger watching somewhere near the Dulwich golf club car park...

However i would be wrong to assume that a newly arrived resident within the confines of the ED borders is a liberal leaning badger fetishist and a lover of car parks somewhere near Dulwich golf club ?

right i think i have got it now !

[Moos]

No, what he is saying is that you would be quite right to assume that the new arrival was a fervent badger-muncher, or whatever. Not only that, but presumably you could refer to our arriviste as 'that badger muncher'. And by total and utter co-incidence, it means that he can make a negative assessment of black people.

[pk]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Huguenot Wrote:

> It's not racist (but may be statistically wrong)

> to observe that a high proportion of a individuals

> from a particular racial background may be

> homophobic, but it is racist to assume that

> someone is likely to be homophobic because of

> their race.

>

> I really can't agree with this at all.

>

> Hypothetically if 100,000 Members of a Race (any

> Race) were asked a question about any Subject

> (positive or negative) and 95,000 all replied the

> same way, then its fair to assume that the next

> person one asks of the same Race will reply the

> same way. Given that would be a very large sample

> and 19 out of every 20 replied the same way its

> only natural to assume the next Guy will also hold

> the same viewpoint.

>

> That, of course does NOT mean that "every" Member

> of that particular Race will reply that way or

> that there are not Members of other Races who will

> also reply that way but in my hypothetical example

> the Guys replying differently would be the

> "exceptions to the rule" so how can that be

> "Racist" to form a clear view of that Racial

> Groups general view of a Subject when nearly

> everyone thinks or talks or acts the same way?

so you've got statistical data about the prevalence of homophobia and racism in the 'black race'?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Moos Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No, what he is saying is that you would be quite

> right to assume that the new arrival was a fervent

> badger-muncher, or whatever. Not only that, but

> presumably you could refer to our arriviste as

> 'that badger muncher'. And by total and utter

> co-incidence, it means that he can make a negative

> assessment of black people.

If you had 100,000 arrivals (a large enough survey!) and 95,000 fitted that description then its fair to assume that the next person WOULD also fill that description!

HOWEVER, the next part is nonsense as you could not refer to the "arriviste" in any way until you established that there WERE like the 95% Majority!