Is it true? (message from Admin) (Lounged)

[Mikecg]

Zaardvark

Crunchy on the outside, but soft in the middle.

:)

[Zaardvark]

And I used to get mistaken for harry Enfield too - but it was [pre]

armadillo's!

[/pre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tsWB--WAJs

[Zaardvark]

P.S.:))

[lenk]

You see, I don't know if I agree. I think I stick 'PC' in the same lazy drawer as 'some of my best friends are black'-type statements.

It?s a rallying call against a world in which you (apparently, though no actual evidence is ever given) have to sing 'baa baa woolly sheep', and celebrate 'Winterval' instead of Christmas.

A more worrying side effect of the 'political correctness gone mad' phenomenon is that the phrase is frequently used to profess ideas that border on sectarianism and racism. I don?t think its any coincidence that many of these stories involve multicultural British life encroaching on 'traditional' British and Christian values.

It's depressing that a lot of the 'political correctness gone mad' stories often involve protecting Christian values and Christians whilst denigrating other faiths, as if the entire population were avid paid-up church-goers.

It worries me that the population is willing to allow casual racism to continue unabated in the name of moaning about non-existent petty bureaucracy (see the misreported 'Winterval' et al, ad nauseum), and as such I see 'PC' as a lazy instrument of debate rather than anything of use.

[Zaardvark]

Well - could you give us some guidelines then? Criticising PCness that may not be sincerely meant is surely not something in the league of 'Winterval' reporting?

Accusations of racism, are sometime warrented and justly those posters are condemned but on this forum this does not happen much but rather people look for it where it does not exist (I remember my experience of it:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,150900).

We have gone OTT on the whole thing in this forum, IMHO.

Best

Z

[lenk]

Zaardvark Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well - could you give us some guidelines then?

> Criticising PCness that may not be sincerely meant

> is surely not something in the league of

> 'Winterval' reporting?

>

> Accusations of racism, are sometime warrented and

> justly those posters are condemned but on this

> forum this does not happen much but rather people

> look for it where it does not exist (I remember my

> experience of it:

> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?2

> 0,150900).

>

> We have gone OTT on the whole thing in this forum,

> IMHO.

>

> Best

>

> Z

Would you not agree that the term 'PC' could be construed as shorthand for ?I am not a(n) [insert noun/adjectival noun], but [insert qualifier]?? though?

[Zaardvark]

Hi,

I thought it was clear in my earlier post but, to paraphrase that, in this context I take it to mean being hypervigilant and complaining whenever people refer to someone's ethnicity in any way what-so-ever in this forum, including asking that people not to refer to themselves as they wish and such posters wishing that we share their obviously deeply felt political correctness.

Best

Z

[Zaardvark]

Hmmmm....

Just to clarify someone critising PCness does NOT mean “I am not a(n) [insert noun/adjectival noun], but [insert qualifier]…” I deeply feel that discrimination on any grounds is unjustified but how on earth does criticising people who accuse others unjustly make me guilty also???

What are you making insinuations about me when I expressed on my concerns that moral policing and trolling of the forum is making it an unpleasant place? What about the messages at the start of this thread? Do they not indicate that the trolls have seen that this is a vulnerable area where forumites are more concerned about coming accross as PC than robustly defending they and their friends from unjust charges?

How do you think people should describe other people, when the need arises? How can they/should they avoid mention of their ethnicity?

Best

Z

[Mikecg]

lenk wrote,

'PC' as a lazy instrument of debate rather than anything of use.

Are you looking for trouble? what is your point? PC is not laziness and has nothing to do with religion parse in my book it is there to help people be aware who may otherwise be ignorant to the man in the wheelchair the boy with the wooden leg the lady with the bald head, the mixed race person the black bloke down the pub the backward bloke the girl with the boss eyes. I think it is there as a guide for people to be aware that people are different from me and you some people are different than that guy up the road, and should we be aware of peoples feelings because we might not want to upset somebody. do you understand or do you have the intalect of a boiled potato?..........

[candj]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I have to say I am very pleased this is not an

> American forum because I have been on many

> American forums, Youtube is a perfect example to

> how racist and expressive americans are in their

> views to colour, you only need to watch most

> American films which features black actors to see

> that more often than not, reference to their

> colour is always made. You don't really see that

> in British Films and programmes and I quite like

> that, this forum is very mild in comparison.

> As Moos said, probaly good we are oversensitive

> instead of insensitive.

Heidi,

I agree with most of what you are saying but in reference to the above, please don't go start digging hole for yourself. I would think that Youtube is not the best barometer of American society. At least I hope that most people would not think of Americans as everything they've ever watched on Youtube.

Best,

-C

[lenk]

Why not just say what you mean, rather than use 'PC' as you then proceed to rubbish something you disagree with?

'PC' is completely meaningless, and nearly always used as shorthand.

And by 'trolling on the forum' do you actually mean 'people who have a differing opinion'? I'm genuinely interested. 'Trolling' would surely consist of an out-and-out direct insult, perhaps an unfounded slur, riffs on that kind of theme.

People seem to get accused of 'trolling' on here (dare I say banned) for playing Devil's Advocate or even worse, having a differing opinion from the majority.

Sitting in a circle and holding hands is nice, I prefer to do that away from the internet though.

[Zaardvark]

By 'trolling' I mean expressing insincere opinions in the hope of generating discord and diagreeing - look at the start of this thread for an example.

Good night - we can continue this tomorrow.

Best

Z

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Like everything in life, not everyone is the same but as I stated in my post, I have been on many american forums, and from personal experience, I found quite a lot of them more expressive in their views to colour, of course you get the decent people informing them that they are rude and they cannot say that, but I am quite surprised by the language and how often colour comes into play on these forums, same as their films and programmes, more often than not, reference to their race (if they are not white) is mentioned, I don't see the point in this, all it does it just keeps the flame of hatred alive, how often do rappers from the USA mention race in their songs etc? I just think if you keep making colour an issue, it will always be an issue.

If that is my personal experience, then that is my personal experience.

candj Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HeidiHi Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > I have to say I am very pleased this is not an

> > American forum because I have been on many

> > American forums, Youtube is a perfect example

> to

> > how racist and expressive americans are in

> their

> > views to colour, you only need to watch most

> > American films which features black actors to

> see

> > that more often than not, reference to their

> > colour is always made. You don't really see

> that

> > in British Films and programmes and I quite

> like

> > that, this forum is very mild in comparison.

> > As Moos said, probaly good we are oversensitive

> > instead of insensitive.

>

>

> Heidi,

>

> I agree with most of what you are saying but in

> reference to the above, please don't go start

> digging hole for yourself. I would think that

> Youtube is not the best barometer of American

> society. At least I hope that most people would

> not think of Americans as everything they've ever

> watched on Youtube.

>

> Best,

> -C

[LibraCarr]

Hi,

I once went out with a 'Redhead'. She had no hair... just a red head.

Regards,

Libra Carr.

[red devil]

I once went out with a beautiful blonde, long flowing hair all down her back, none on her head just her back...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Just a thought, are all those Aussie, Irish, Scottish, English, Jewish and so forth jokes on the joke thread PC?;-)

[candj]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Like everything in life, not everyone is the same

> but as I stated in my post, I have been on many

> american forums, and from personal experience, I

> found quite a lot of them more expressive in their

> views to colour, of course you get the decent

> people informing them that they are rude and they

> cannot say that, but I am quite surprised by the

> language and how often colour comes into play on

> these forums, same as their films and programmes,

> more often than not, reference to their race (if

> they are not white) is mentioned, I don't see the

> point in this, all it does it just keeps the flame

> of hatred alive, how often do rappers from the USA

> mention race in their songs etc? I just think if

> you keep making colour an issue, it will always be

> an issue.

> If that is my personal experience, then that is my

> personal experience.

>

>

>

Dear Heidi,

Sure, whatever you say. However, your example of rappers in America constantly referring to their race I don't see as being racist necessarily, but perhaps a form of identity as most rappers in America are black. Sure, they use emotive language that perhaps incites at time, but I think it's more for effect, but then again what would I know as I'm not a rapper nor am I black. Your experience is your experience, as you put it.

And to be honest, at times, colour and race seem to be a huge issue on this forum, as well.

Best,

C

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Exactly and our point is, it should not be an issue because more often then not, it is not an issue, but people keep making it an issue by saying we are not allowed to use the word "Black" and so forth. It is only offensive if you use it to generalise everyone of one race, colour, whatever. And of course using offensive racist words is wrong but that goes without saying.

With regards to rappers, how can we do away with the 'N' word when they keep singing about it in their songs? and calling themselves it but others are not allowed to? it is just pointless and not necessary. I personally don't want to hear the 'N' word, not from a black or white person. It is an offensive term, and I get offended when black people call each other the N word , and no one regardless of what colour they are should be saying it.

[lenk]

How come it's OK for all those rappers to use the 'N-Word' in their compositions, yet when I use it at my son's football match I get asked to leave the pitch?

As usual, it's one rule for multi-million selling rappers, one rule for the rest of us.

[candj]

Dear Heidi,

Yes, but you and I are not discussing the usage of the word "black" or the "N" word. In your previous posts, you argue that you don't like people generalising and using that word to describe the larger group. I agree with that, but merely stated that you shouldn't in turn generalise Americans as being racist especially when basing your facts on that pinnacle of grounded research - Youtube!

This discussion is very circular and I am finished now. Thank you.

Best,

-C

[candj]

Be careful Penk! Only 23 letters left...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

lenk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How come it's OK for all those rappers to use the

> 'N-Word' in their compositions, yet when I use it

> at my son's football match I get asked to leave

> the pitch?

>

> As usual, it's one rule for multi-million selling

> rappers, one rule for the rest of us.

Well, if you are a black man calling another black person on the pitch the N word, I am sure it is fine if these rappers are anything to go by, but if you are white, tut tut, shame on you!

Hence my point, it is like chinese people calling each other a racist term, Pakistani people calling each other a racist term, Black people calling each other a racist term etc in their songs and greetings, and mentioning it ALL the time and then when someone else who is not of the same ethnicity as them uses that term or refers to their race everyone is up in arms, so the only way to move forward is to ban racist terms being used between each other and others. It cannot be one rule for one, and another rule for another.

Being mixed race, I don't go up to all my mixed race friends and go " Hey you half caste/half breed , what is going on?" and then when someone who is not mixed race says that I then get all offended and say " You cannot say that you RACIST person!" it is just wrong. So I should not be using offensive terms even if I am of that colour, and nor should anyone else.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

candj Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dear Heidi,

> Yes, but you and I are not discussing the usage of

> the word "black" or the "N" word. In your

> previous posts, you argue that you don't like

> people generalising and using that word to

> describe the larger group. I agree with that, but

> merely stated that you shouldn't in turn

> generalise Americans as being racist especially

> when basing your facts on that pinnacle of

> grounded research - Youtube!

> This discussion is very circular and I am finished

> now. Thank you.

> Best,

> -C

I said they are more expressive in their views to race and they are, that is a fact, can you challenge me otherwise? Youtube is not the only example, films, programmes, I was even watching a comedy scrubs the other day and reference is made to colour again...why?!!

I was with AOL as my network server so I used to frequent the forums, and chat rooms, and they were really very expressive and open about everything, they held no punches in their views.

I liked the generalisation that upon finding out I was English, it meant I had bad teeth...I didn't know that!::o

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

So to wrap it up and then I am leaving this subject alone, now I have thought about it, the EDF is pretty good because we don't actually use any racist terms, people are just a tad too touchy about saying a person is black, or indian etc and should not be, because it is NOT racist to do that.

[candj]

HeidiHi Wrote: Just to remind you -

And English people do have bad teeth, haven't you seen the British Book of Smiles? ;-)*

*Edited to say this last point is a huge tongue in cheek!