ED tenants looking to get on the housing ladder in East London, would love some advice!

[StraferJack]

not at all

thought I was specific - if you move to a new area and you want prices to rise - that's the problem

if you want to move to an area because it's nice enough and you can afford it - no problem there

[Help-Ma-Boab]

"I'd head Beckenham way if I had too"

If its good enough for Seabag it's good enough for me. Ya Dancer...

[Jeremy]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> if you move to a new area and you want prices to rise - that's the problem

> if you want to move to an area because it's nice enough and you can afford it - no problem there

I'm seeing an obvious third option - move to an area which is a bit down-at-heel but with signs it is on the up, and you believe will turn out to be a nice place to live. Surely that's what lots of us have done or are doing? Any rise in price which may have occurred is cancelled out (and then some) when you move house anyway.

[Jeremy]

.

[StraferJack]

"m seeing an obvious third option - move to an area which is a bit down-at-heel but with signs it is on the up, and you believe will turn out to be a nice place to live."

More option 2.5 but yeah nothing wrong with that - and if that happens then the probability is that house prices will rise. But if you are moving there with a view to hoping the prices rise as a significant factor then I can't see that as anything other than drawing bridges up behind you

[StraferJack]

"do I just detect some sneery hypocracy....do what I say not what I do type stuff maybe"

is this still out there as an accusation?

[Baggs]

Similar position to you and looking at Croydon. Parts are, despite the reputation, very pleasant places to live and there are a few flats within your budget available I would think...

[????]

er, no, a question. You came accross as being a bit sneery to the OP to me, and apparently not just to me. You've said you didn't mean it to be that awy and explained what you meant

I believe you. As an aside I think you're both naive and a bit simplistic to think that the profit motive is some how intrinsically wrong..... which isn't to say I don't think the London housing market ain't broke by the way

...this isn't a court of law by the way

[StraferJack]

"As an aside I think you're both naive and a bit simplistic to think that the profit motive is some how intrinsically wrong..... which isn't to say I don't think the London housing market ain't broke by the way "

there does come a point when the two competing viewpoints snap tho?

Most people seem to think the London housing market is broke - but when it comes to nailing down exactly why, people seem to get squeamish and blame concepts like "supply and demand" rather than the reality that the profit motive, in this market, is eating itself?

Am i sneering at people who want property prices to rise? I wouldn't say sneering but I will consistently point out it is the problem

[Jeremy]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> the profit motive, in this market, is eating itself?

Yes the profit motive is a problem - but more in the context of property investment, rather than young people getting the first foot on the ladder and trying to find a reasonable area to live in..

[????]

Er, demand is massively outsripping supply - it's not a 'concept' it's blatantly obvious. If we (the state and/or private developers) did (and had) built more homes then prices and rent wouldn't be as bad.

[StraferJack]

if people are moving AND looking to see their property rise in price then you can't just blame "property investors". They are a problem too, but so are homeowners who want (then depend on) property price rises

I'm not trying to have a go at the OP by the way - my first response was one of "good luck" but as the thread developed it was a useful example of what's wrong with the way people think of property. Profit motive should drive work and innovation - it shouldn't be linked with where you live.

Prices are rising not just because houses aren't being built - they are rising because owners insist they do

[StraferJack]

"If we (the state and/or private developers) did (and had) built more homes then prices and rent wouldn't be as bad."

I've said it a million times - even if enough (define?) houses were sudden;y built tomorrow, the outcome would be unacceptable to current homeowners. For prices to lower enough to meet yer average wage earner, current property would have to fall massively in value. There would be outcry

or maaybe there wouldn't - maybe people saying "just build more - problem solved!" would be happy for the 1 million they spent to suddenly be worth 300k

because if you build several hundred thousand houses and prices just plateau for a couple of years that doesn't help the problem

[miga]

r-

[Jeremy]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> if people are moving AND looking to see their

> property rise in price

Who are these people exactly and how did they become part of the discussion?

I really think most people just think "where do I want to live" and "what can I afford".

[StraferJack]

"Who are these people exactly and how did they become part of the discussion? "

well in THIS instance it;s the OP

"we're looking to get on the ladder but also make a good investment in an area which is likely to appreciate"

but I don't think they are in any way unique in thinking this way

[Jeremy]

OK I didn't see that post. I see what you mean now.

[Otta]

I work for Newham and know all the areas you mention well. Personally I wouldn't want to live in any of them.

Penge or Anerly would be my recommendation.

I love Sydenham but we couldn't afford to buy there a year ago so moved to Penge which I've been well pleased.

Really don't like Beckenham, feels like a small town.

It's about personal choice but I'd choose our ex council flat on an estate in Penge over a house in Newham every time.

[Otta]

miga Wrote:

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I mean, it seems lik decades away from being anything like ED,

This isn't necessarily a bad thing in my book. ED crossed a line for me these last few years. Wouldn't want to live there now really.

[miga]

.

[????]

Well , I've lived in East Dulwich for over 20 years with a couple of breaks and for me it's at its best now. And, as it's personal preference, I am now old enough and lucky enough (touch wood) to not have to move anywhere 'edgier' less cdeveloped, up and coming etc, ever again something I'm quite happy with being a boring old increasing middle class git. The reality is it wasn't the sh1thole that some newcomers seem to think it was 20 years ago but it's not the 'entitleled' 'snobby' clapham blow in nappy valley other people make out (*ahem no names); Excluding house prices, by most metrics - food choice; shop choice, schools, actual real mixture of different srts of people; pub choice; crime; etc etc it's feels better to me than in the early 90s.....just my opinion of course. Same true of much of London...although not West Ham, UP or Plaistow OP :)

[miga]

.

[????]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> "If we (the state and/or private developers) did

> (and had) built more homes then prices and rent

> wouldn't be as bad."

>

> I've said it a million times - even if enough

> (define?) houses were sudden;y built tomorrow, the

> outcome would be unacceptable to current

> homeowners. For prices to lower enough to meet yer

> average wage earner, current property would have

> to fall massively in value. There would be outcry

>

> or maaybe there wouldn't - maybe people saying

> "just build more - problem solved!" would be happy

> for the 1 million they spent to suddenly be worth

> 300k

>

> because if you build several hundred thousand

> houses and prices just plateau for a couple of

> years that doesn't help the problem

Yup but that?s not going to happen is it ? like *kerpow* a million new houses by August.

By increasing housing availability incrementally and continually to get nearer demand over time (which is what would happen in reallity) the heat and froth would be the first to reduce so people wouldn?t feel ?I?ve got to get on now?; over a bit more time we may see a small fall in prices and certainly in rents but not catastrophically. This would free up more money for spending hopefully boosting the economy too ; it may put some very recent buyers in small negative equity but unless they ?need? to move this is just ?on paper?; over time and combined with some inflation (Hopefully not deflation, but that?s a different story) housing starts to become more affordable all round as prices(rent and buying) start to fall in real terms for sure.

Fuck rent controls/mansion taxes?we?ve got to starts to build ? itself a booster to the economy, it?s so fooking obvious.

[Otta]

???? Wrote:

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> Well , I've lived in East Dulwich for over 20

> years with a couple of breaks and for me it's at

> its best now. And, as it's personal preference, I

> am now old enough and lucky enough (touch wood) to

> not have to move anywhere 'edgier' less

> cdeveloped, up and coming etc, ever again

> something I'm quite happy with being a boring old

> increasing middle class git. The reality is it

> wasn't the sh1thole that some newcomers seem to

> think it was 20 years ago but it's not the

> 'entitleled' 'snobby' clapham blow in nappy valley

> other people make out (*ahem no names); Excluding

> house prices, by most metrics - food choice; shop

> choice, schools, actual real mixture of different

> srts of people; pub choice; crime; etc etc it's

> feels better to me than in the early 90s.....just

> my opinion of course. Same true of much of

> London...although not West Ham, UP or Plaistow OP

> :)

As you say, it's a personal thing. Basically all my mates have moved away, so ED just doesn't have a lot to offer me any more except

1. Visiting my parents or sister

2. Dulwich Hamlet

3. Occasionally meeting Jah Lush to watch football in The Castle / Plough.

I agree with you that ED was never a shit hole like some suggest. It didn't have the things that people find nice now, but that's because nowhere had those things. I also don't think the area has become snobby and entitled, but that's not to say there aren't some people like that there, but you get tools in every area.

I think really it just depresses me a bit because the people and places I loved are all gone, so the area makes me a bit melancholy.

[Otta]

Anyway, been thinking about this more since posting earlier, and to the OP I implore you not to move to Newham. If ED is what you like, then there is NOTHING for you there! And it's not trendy "edgy" East London either.

I do know a lass from Crystal Palace who lives in Stratford and loves it, and there are good things about it (very good primary schools if you're planning a family), but for vibe and feel, they would struggle to be more different from this corner of SE London.