dog attack Dulwich Park

[Shabba Ranks]

and a young half caste lad in his teens

Not meaning in away to detract from the utter disgust I have for those that own such dogs, don't or can't look after them and walk around the streets with a look of superiority on their hooded faces but the above term is no longer PC I'm afraid.

This dog is clearly a menace and must be put down. Now this is not said lightly as this should be a last resort but honestly, how on earth can we as a society allow dogs, that traditionally are bred for fighting, to walk around amongst children without a lead or a muzzle?

Will it take the mauling of a child? The death of another dog? The slow deterioation of Dulwich Park from a highly regarded green space to an area dominated by dangerous dogs with selfish owners?

[Brendan]

It is not PC no and hopefully there wasn?t any malicious intent. But let?s leave it out for now and not let this thread deteriorate off topic into another bile filled rant over nomenclature.

I agree with your points about dangerous breeds but there are so many grey areas when it comes to enforcing any regulations on them.

[Surprise]

Shabba Ranks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and a young half caste lad in his teens

>

> Not meaning in away to detract from the utter

> disgust I have for those that own such dogs, don't

> or can't look after them and walk around the

> streets with a look of superiority on their hooded

> faces but the above term is no longer PC I'm

> afraid.

Yes, the term half-caste is offensive, mixed-race would have been a better description.

[linzkg]

Separating dogs during a dog fight:

1. find a stick (a glove would be useful too, just in case)

2. the stick needs to be inserted into the dogs mouth, behind it's teeth so to speak, horizontally from left to right/right to left (if i can explain it that way)

simple!

this makes the dog release it's grip immediately - there are nerves that affect the "lock jaw" effect that these types of dogs have - I don't know of any other way to actually get them to "unlock" their jaws .. obviously the bum theory may and could work too ;-)

and i am speaking from experience .. unfortunately.

my family used to breed staffies and bull terriers .. not in this country however, where i come from they are sort after breeds and certainly do not have the reputation as they do here .. which is very sad .. i have photos of me getting horse back rides on my bullie when i was 3 years old and running around playing with the staffies etc .. i grew up with them around and it's so sad as these breeds have a beautiful soft and subdued natue .. but i am totally embarrassed to admit to loving these breeds here as people do frown at you .. again, sad.

anyhoo, good luck with the stick separating theory - here's hoping no one ever has to use it!!!

[Jeremy]

Shabba Ranks Wrote:

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> how on earth can we as a

> society allow dogs, that traditionally are bred

> for fighting, to walk around amongst children

> without a lead or a muzzle?

I do tend to agree, but I'm sure there are lots of responsible owners, whose pets are not aggressive.

On the other hand, there are irresponsible owners, who own these dogs with the aim to intimidate people or worse. Something like a rottweiler or an alsatian in the hands of these people would be more dangerous to the public than a pitbull/staffie in the hands of a responsible owner. So classifying dangerous dogs by breed is a bit of a blunt instrument.

[linzkg]

well said Jeremy!!

"traditionally bred for fighting" - really??? lets not confuse breeds of dogs here surely but also generalise .. I sense the pitbull card being used here ..

there are so many theories as to why dogs "turn" - there's also some truth in dog breeds being crossed and this isn't healthy either apparently.

I honestly think it's down to the way a dog is brought up BUT also it's surroundings and what's it used to - if a dog is spooked it jumps and reacts and unfortunately with their teeth - regardless if it's a snake or a child it lashes out at.

The same can be said for animals like sharks - they don't just attack because they are "traditionally bred to hunt" - they attack if they're hungry or are in a position where they feel threatened / spooked.

[Jeremy]

linzkg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> well said Jeremy!!

>

> "traditionally bred for fighting" - really???

> lets not confuse breeds of dogs here surely but

> also generalise .. I sense the pitbull card being

> used here ..

Well... bulldogs and staffies were originally bred for bull-baiting, so I don't really think there can be much debate here...

[Cassius]

Jack Russells can be vicious - weren't they bred for getting foxes out from their lairs? - yet look cute and very safe (until they nip you). Still at least I guess they would find it hard to reach as high as your throat!

[Moos]

Thanks linzkg for your post - though let's hope none of us ever has to use it.

The trouble with any of these laws is that by definition it's the law-abiding dog-owners with the well-behaved dogs who obey them and the anti-social ones who don't. So one could easily imagine lots of people walking about with unnecessarily-muzzled dogs, and the dogs who really need the muzzling going free, with their owners laughing at the law. On a less serious point than a dog attack, I once asked a group of young men to take their dog out of the dog-free area (as it was then) on Goose Green. They just told me that if I wasn't from the council I couldn't tell them what to do and they didn't have to listen to me, and walked off. So unless the police start to spend their valuable time patrolling the parks of Southwark arresting people who don't obey these minor but important laws they can easily be ignored.

[chuff]

Thanks for all the tips, hopefully I never have to try them.

[fractionater]

ED should request the services of Cesar Milan..

Special edition of Dog Whisperer doing the rounds of Goose Green and Dulwich Park sorting out the chavs and their "Aggressive dominant behaviour" pitbulls!

"...Tsssst....Tssst!"

[LegalEagle-ish]

I'm going to take my scary looking bull breed dog to Dulwich Park right now, so if I happen upon the skinny, aggressive staff I'll beat it with my big chain doglead, cos my dog is a pussy and runs off at the first sign of trouble. If anyone wants to shatter their stereotypes, come and meet this chav and her "Aggressive dominant behaviour" pitbull, i'll be there until about 3:30.

[Brendan]

He doesn't like skateboards much though. ;-)

[LegalEagle-ish]

Haha - he has a squeeky wheel obsession!

[first mate]

Pitbulls and Staffies were orginally bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. Some lines, not all, should not be trusted around other dogs. When used for dog fighting in days of old, the owners needed to be able to separate their fighting dogs to avoid the death of one or the other, without the owners getting bitten. For this reason well bred Staffs and Pitbulls should be very gentle and totally biddable with people. They are actually useless guard dogs on the whole. If these breeds attack people they are likely have been badly abused or of unsound genetic material.

Any dog, of any breed, can be taught to attack people but certain breeds are more likely to be people wary and Staffs and Pitbulls are not amongst them. Dogs with strong guard instincts are more likely to turn.

A Staff/pit does not lock its jaw it simply refuses to give in once it has a hold. It has all the willpower and obstinacy of other terrier breeds but in addition, incredible jaw strength and a low pain threshold (making it a better dog fighter). One way to get a Staff off another dog is to hold it up by its back legs like a wheelbarrow and have someone else put a stick between its upper jaw.

As a rule anyone intervening in a real dog fight, rather than a mild scrap, runs a high risk of getting bitten or worse.

It is not advisable. The best thing is to try to avoid these dogs and ensure your dog is well trained enough to come to heel should you need to get it away from another dog. I avoid most bull breeds unless I know the dog and the owner. Ditto Akitas, Malamutes and Shar peis.

I think too many people attracted to the gentle nature of Staffs around children etc.. are not always wholly aware how different they can be around dogs. I think a Staff (Pitbulls are totally illegal unless neutered and muzzled) that shows any aggression to other dogs should not be let off lead in public parks and other places. Dog fights present a real risk to children and other people in the vicinity.

Too many "Staffs" are crossbreeds. They look like Staffs but do not necessarily have the breed and character traits of a Staff. Thus some may be vicious with people.

[Asset]

I have heard that throwing a coat over the head to put the dog in darkness is enough to get them to let go, at least in a fight between 'normal' dogs, not sure about psycho dogs. Never tried it though.

[ericyork]

i have looked into the subject of protection against dog attacks on the internet, there is a vast amount of evidence, that suggests that the only effective way, is to use a canine pepper spray, widely avaliable around the world, but, not legel in the UK - It gives you time to get away from the situation. Sticks etc are very difficult to use and the attacking dog would prob turn on the human. The spray is called Muzzle and I would suggest looking it up - just out of interest, of course.

[MissSophie]

Owning a dog is simple:

Show dog love, dog loves you

Show dog violence, aggression, fear and the dog will do exactly the same.

I get so upset and angry when I see anyone hit their dog or aggressively mistreat it - the dog only goes by what it has been bought up to believe is right. As Linzkg suggests, they can be harmless if they have been bought up in a loving, family environment. If you pass a dog from one owner to another without any due care or attention (or love and affection) unfortunately, the dog will become aggressive.

I'm sorry, but it not their fault and we are too quick to insist on the destruction of an animal that has been raised by clear idiots. As a dog owner myself, I would certainly welcome the re-introduction of dog licences; it answers so many questions on so many levels.

[Huggers]

Reintroduction of dog licences together with dna hair sample of dog, then -like owners of mis-parked cars- owners of non-poo picking up dog can be tracked and fined. I think this is the best idea I have ever had in my life and will now do nothing for the rest of the day.

[linzkg]

the stick in the mouth, behind the teeth, works!!

http://www.riospitbull.com/breaking_stick.htm - can't really be bothered to go any further into this subject only to have someone contradict what i've just said .. but this is a starting point to prove the theory.

[microbite]

Tips when choosing a puppy, (particularly a staff), lay the puppy on its back with your hand on his chest, if he has no problem being dominated in this way, you can usually figure on getting a friendly type dog (although not saying that if the puppy is abused or beaten in any way, it won't grow to learn to be vicious) If it looks as though it has a problem with this and growls or doesn't look happy, (he'll be frowning you know ha!) I'd steer clear as he is not going to like being told what to do.

In matters of life and death, for example if you see someone getting viciously attacked say e.g. a small child and other methods, i.e. stick haven't worked or there is simply no time, grab said staff by both front legs if you can, and pull them apart, fast and hard, it will split and break their breast bones and ultimately kill them quickly, awful I know, but if a child's life is at risk, things have to be put into perspective.

[SteveT]

If all dogs were muzzled in public places, we would not have to suffer a pea brained moron with a big bruiser dog threatening and endangering our pleasure in the park.

[microbite]

Steve T

You've done it now lol! we are now going to get inundated with people and their comments regarding their pet pooche's rights of way, rights to run free unfettered in the park blah blah blah, and at the risk of biting small children who really should be supervised anyways by their parents!

;-)

[SteveT]

I said muzzled advisedly microbite, as I know dogs have to run, so cannot always be on a lead.

I agree the people who are likely to challenge the post are the law abiding pet owners,

not the pea brained, unlawful wild animal keeper, who seem to go unchallenged throughout their wreckless lives.

[Moos]

microbite Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Steve T

>

> You've done it now lol! we are now going to get

> inundated with people and their comments regarding

> their pet pooche's rights of way, rights to run

> free unfettered in the park blah blah blah, and at

> the risk of biting small children who really

> should be supervised anyways by their parents!

>

> ;-)

Weeeell, yes. Having seen the argument about small children before, I'd comment that even closely supervised small children once mobile can get themselves into trouble remarkably quickly.

I don't for a moment think that this means that dogs should be muzzled, but the argument that if parents were supervising their children properly there could be no accidents is simply nonsense.