Aircraft noise -

aquarius moon · July 1, 2015

DulwichFox Wrote:

>

> Yet another case of selective reading and

> prejudiced views to climb the

> Popularity charts.

>

I don't think anyone posting on this thread is likely to climb the popularity charts. From what I've seen it will be the opposite.

One poster needs to be banned. I can't believe that admin continually turn a blind eye to constant verbal abuse and nastiness.

If I were you Foxy, I'd stay out of it and enjoy being as far away as possible.

@Woodwarde · July 1, 2015

I have avoided commenting but I do read this thread. I have lived in Dulwich for 16 years and it is only at the beginning of this year that I have noticed a change. I have to assume therefore that something has changed - I hear the aircraft most mornings; the flights seems to commence at about 4.30 or 5. Something about that time. I am happy to support investigation and options to vary the more heavily used paths. Seems logical to balance the load. But I claim no knowledge on how the paths are selected, allocated, monitored.... Yet.

fazer71 · July 1, 2015

I'm convinced the combination of aircraft noise lack of sleep and dealing with those on here have made me go quite mad.

Ban me and I'll have one less problem.

My moral compass is fully operational even with the madness!

fazer71 · July 1, 2015

aquarius moon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> >

> > Yet another case of selective reading and

> > prejudiced views to climb the

> > Popularity charts.

> >

>

> I don't think anyone posting on this thread is

> likely to climb the popularity charts. From what

> I've seen it will be the opposite.

>

> One poster needs to be banned. I can't believe

> that admin continually turn a blind eye to

> constant verbal abuse and nastiness.

>

> If I were you Foxy, I'd stay out of it and enjoy

> being as far away as possible.

You should have signed it..

One of the mob..

fazer71 · July 1, 2015

@Woodwarde Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have avoided commenting but I do read this

> thread. I have lived in Dulwich for 16 years and

> it is only at the beginning of this year that I

> have noticed a change. I have to assume therefore

> that something has changed - I hear the aircraft

> most mornings; the flights seems to commence at

> about 4.30 or 5. Something about that time. I am

> happy to support investigation and options to vary

> the more heavily used paths. Seems logical to

> balance the load. But I claim no knowledge on how

> the paths are selected, allocated, monitored....

> Yet.

Woodward

Big mistake making a post like that.

Any moment you'll be told by one of the mob, you are crazy there's no aircraft noise and if there is accept it has been there since roman times.

This thread like all the other aircraft noise threads have been railroaded by the ED mob.

I really don't understand what they are trying to achieve.

What their motivation is, but they do it to every aircraft noise thread.?

Bizzare

*Bob* · July 1, 2015

whymewhynow -

Firstly, I agree with you on City: the potential for development and material change to flight patterns in and out of there will be a real issue for some.

Of course I don't believe HACAN is part of sinister plot to hide the truth: but by the same token, neither is Heathrow: information on every single flight path, altitude and time flown over - accurate to the very house more or less - has been freely available to the public for years, provided by an independent third party. All someone had to do - if they were sufficiently interested - was collect it (or a representative sample of it) before each year of available data expired.

Considering most of the protest meetings consist of people adamant they're starting to be plagued by more planes than there were before I find it amazing that no-one seems to have just, you know, counted them - so they know for sure. Could there be a more obvious thing to do? So I did: half an hour out of a day every few years, just out of interest. Less time than some on here have spent ranting subjectively with no hard evidence to speak of!

And for me: save a small % increase, on a typical westerly operations day for Heathrow, roughly the same number of aircraft, starting at 4.30am, flew near my house along the same flight paths in 2008 - as did last week. So now I know. And if things change I'll know as well. Maybe it's different for you where you are, I couldn't say. As with so many things - sometimes if you want something done and no-one else seems willing you have to do it yourself.

Administrator · July 2, 2015

I have removed a few posts that are purely having a dig at other people or are weirdly self-congratulatory and offer nothing useful to this thread. Apologies if it spoils the flow of some of it.

So please stay on topic and discuss aircraft noise, not each other's imperfections/attitude/personalities etc.

peckham_ryu · July 2, 2015

I moved here 5 or so years ago knowing full well the extent of aircraft noise over my house, so it could be argued that I shouldn't expect anything less than the constant coming and going of passing planes. Even so, if there are viable ways of reducing the noise a bit - like sending half the flights by some other route, or changing the descent profile so that they pass much higher in the sky - then I see no reason not to encourage the airports to make those changes.

Sitting outside last night in the sweltering heat, I could hear nearby blackbirds singing and the welcome rustling of the wind in the trees. But that was only in the very brief intervals between the varying noises of the constant planes: some appear with a peculiar almost "pop" like whoosh, others approach to execute a crescendo of high pitched engine noise, and others with a more distant steady droning. I do quite like looking up and seeing all the sky travellers and identifying where they are flying in from ... but I'd still enjoy that if they were not so close to the ground or if fewer of them passed. So I don't agree with those who seem to be saying that we should put up with it just because it's our lot in life if we choose to keep living on the flight path.

p.s. thanks Admin for trimming some of the posts in this thread - some of the aggressive name calling etc was just downright unpleasant.

James Barber · July 2, 2015

Hi peckham_rye,

alternative flying patterns are indeed full practical - BA have been testing steeper descents. Aircraft manufacturers can make aircraft quieter. Night flights can be banned. None of these will happen without a motivation - campaigning for improvements.

whymewhynow · July 2, 2015

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> information on every

> single flight path, altitude and time flown over -

> accurate to the very house more or less - has been

> freely available to the public for years, provided

> by an independent third party.

Bob, I should be grateful if you could point me in the direction of the web-site for this information. I have not had occasion to keep track of overflight info for my own home over the years because I didn't view it as a problem until about two years ago (and so I have no prior store of data against which to compare any new observations).

If the historic info is easily accessible almost down to an individual addresses, I am happy to take observations going forward and compare them to historic data. Well done to you by the way for going down the path of taking your own observations over such a long period. You're a better and more far thinking human than me. I tend to resolve towards action only when the pain of doing nothing becomes rather extreme....

gbal30 · July 2, 2015

Try here: http://www.flightradar24.com/

bensam · July 2, 2015

I used to live in East Dulwich near Goose Green. Aircraft noise was horendous and after 5 years I realised I could just bite the bullet and move. Life is too short to live with something that spoils the simple enjoyment of your home on a regular basis. I moved a bit south to West Dulwich and I see the planes mostly flying safely in the distance and count my lucky stars. I have looked at the news of a third runway at Heathrow with a lot of disgust. The numbers are staggering on how much they want to increase the numbers of flights. But what I find really disturbing is that one of the main reasons I see touted as why we need a huge hub airport and more capacity is that the UK offers a fraction of the flights to Asian cities that like Frankfurt do. The UK can't compete, be a global powerhouse etc. Now clearly those that put the report together do not understand Asian flights as they also say that a third runway should be accompanied by a ban on night flights (no flights before 6am). This would certainly go towards making the runway more acceptable as it would allow people to sleep BUT almost all Asian flights arrive before 6am. For a flight to take off from China and arrive after 6am you need that flight to leave around 2am! They want to build a runway which cannot supply the solution to the problem, the need for a massive 24h hub airport.

*Bob* · July 2, 2015

WMWN - Heathrow webtrak is the thing. Goes back a year. Set the start time on a particular day for 4am and replay. You can set the replay speed up to 60x (so see 30 minutes worth of flights pass over in 30 seconds). Click on any aircraft to see altitude, aircraft type etc

http://webtrak5.bksv.com/lhr4

James Barber · July 3, 2015

Interesting idea to stem flight demand - http://www.1010uk.org/articles/heres-how-we-can-cut-flights-without-ruining-everyones-holiday

fazer71 · July 3, 2015

I guess you guys know I'm pretty obsessed by the Aircraft noise so last year I looked at the historical data.

I checked flightradar.com trawling through lots of historical data also after contacting Heathrow they supplied some charts I looked at their data and compared it to flightradar.com I came to the conclusion the precision of all the data is poor very very poor when compared for same dates.

It simply wasn't precise there was lots of variation between the different overlays comparing the exactly the same flights on the same day I went over the data time and time again.

Then I looked at the live data on flightradar.com which proved my findings sometimes the aircraft were in the correct position I could confirm with my own eyes and at other times the live data didn't match what I was seeing with my eyes the aircraft were miles away.

Maybe due to atmospheric anomalies maybe due to a magnetic change I saw the anomaly live on the same day?

Why aren't the feeds accurate?

Conclusion the historical data can't be trusted.

If you don't believe me sit with a laptop in your garden run flightradar you will see a lot of aircraft visible 1/2 a mile or more away from where the live feed shows,, some are in the correct place vs the live data.

http://www.flightradar24.com/51.46,-0.17/13

*Bob* · July 3, 2015

Fazer, flightradar is not 100% accurate, nor is the information 100% live.

Some aircraft transmit delayed information (5 minutes in some cases). Even if the information is sent in realtime, added delay by the server of 20s can easily have a 'realtime' aircraft half a mile out or seemingly 'in the wrong place'.

Not all aircraft are shown.

In addition to all this the information FR gives you (altitude, heading, whatevs) is only as good as what's sent from the aircraft and this isn't automated - it's prone to human error. It would appear there are a few clumsy fingers on keypads up there.

This all said, whilst 'specifically' it can't be relied upon as there will be obvious anomalies like the ones you mention, I think the 'overall picture' it provides is good.

???? · July 3, 2015

Fazer do you have an app to measure what % of kids are out of control at anytime as you seem keen on evidence based arguments?

fazer71 · July 3, 2015

???? wrong thread.

Bob thanks that makes sense.

Also shows the historical data is probably flawed.

*Bob* · July 3, 2015

Not sure how FR deals with its historic data, but I believe webtrak does correct/smooth if there are obvious anomalies..

Bobthefunkhouse · July 6, 2015

Some people have way tooooooooo much time on their hands to complain about stuff on this FORUM!!!! Should the airport just upticks and move completely . . . Your city dwellers so deal with the noise. Geeeezzzzz.

fazer71 · July 7, 2015

Bobthefunkhouse

Thank you for adding to the noise on this thread and contributing a solution, "move home :)" to a problem which has appeared where previously there was no problem. (oh yes must remember aircraft have been flying over ED since Roman times.)