Aircraft noise -

[rendelharris]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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I normally only 'hear' the planes

> (consciously) when I am reading these threads - on

> other occasions I am oblivious - although I find

> police helicopters overhead really annoying!

Yes! I can not notice plane noise for hours then I see it mentioned here and it suddenly seems intrusive, a few minutes after I've started working again I'm entirely oblivious. Definitely a psychological element, which is not to belittle the real annoyance it clearly causes some - your suggestion of mindfulness practise seems a useful one.

[bobbsy]

Completely agree on the police helicopters too - those i cannot ignore

[pop9770]

There may be an explanation.

With hearing women when compared to men have been shown to have heightened hearing sensitivity some men have evolved to hear more than other similar to women in hearing ability and having a better sense of spatial awareness geometry ballistics an ability to concentrate their attention on the task at hand to the exclusion of distractions, evolved to survive over many thousands of years ,,, it?s an important factor if say they pickup on an annoying sound it dominates the attention or say a nasty smell it could make them feel sick whilst for others it?s not a problem.

Maybe if you?re descended from a gene pool that required high levels of hearing like hunters or warriors having evolved for survival, that would explain why individuals hear different sounds at different levels, why to some the pitch resonance and level of sound differs in intensity and levels of annoyance, why for some it?s not a problem but to others it?s a living hell.

If you are descended from farmers or fishermen you have less need for those particularly heightened senses you?ll be good at digging, have a strong back but not require the best hearing eye sight but have a great sense of smell.

Who knows we are all different I accept some just don?t hear so they are not affected, whilst others are driven mad as I am.

It?s impossible to have sympathy for those who don?t have a problem there?s no logic in that, so if someone has a problem and you don?t sympathise that?s fine but there?s no need to tell them you don?t have a problem unless you?re looking for sympathy which you wouldn?t be that makes no sense ??unless you had a strange logic,,, so you can only be presumed to be looking for something else?

[TheArtfulDogger]

So reading into your post pop/Fazer you are saying that your ancestors developed a high level of hearing specifically to hear Pterodactyls flying overhead at 5am and as a result thousands of years later you wake up in fear when a Boeing 747 goes overhead

Wow I can see now how special you are now 🤔

[buying]

1

[pop9770]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

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> Wow I can see now how special you are now

> 🤔

Thanks

Yes we're all special in our own way some have their downside at 4.30am .

[rendelharris]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> There may be an explanation.

>

> With hearing women when compared to men have been

> shown to have heightened hearing sensitivity some

> men have evolved to hear more than other similar

> to women in hearing ability and having a better

> sense of spatial awareness geometry ballistics an

> ability to concentrate their attention on the task

> at hand to the exclusion of distractions, evolved

> to survive over many thousands of years ,,, it?s

> an important factor if say they pickup on an

> annoying sound it dominates the attention or say a

> nasty smell it could make them feel sick whilst

> for others it?s not a problem.

>

> Maybe if you?re descended from a gene pool that

> required high levels of hearing like hunters or

> warriors having evolved for survival, that would

> explain why individuals hear different sounds at

> different levels, why to some the pitch resonance

> and level of sound differs in intensity and levels

> of annoyance, why for some it?s not a problem but

> to others it?s a living hell.

>

> If you are descended from farmers or fishermen you

> have less need for those particularly heightened

> senses you?ll be good at digging, have a strong

> back but not require the best hearing eye sight

> but have a great sense of smell.

>

> Who knows we are all different I accept some just

> don?t hear so they are not affected, whilst others

> are driven mad as I am.

>

> It?s impossible to have sympathy for those who

> don?t have a problem there?s no logic in that, so

> if someone has a problem and you don?t sympathise

> that?s fine but there?s no need to tell them you

> don?t have a problem unless you?re looking for

> sympathy which you wouldn?t be that makes no sense

> ??unless you had a strange logic,,, so you can

> only be presumed to be looking for something else?

That is most splendidly bonkers pop/fazer, I tip my hat to you!

[hpsaucey]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

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> So reading into your post pop/Fazer you are saying

> that your ancestors developed a high level of

> hearing specifically to hear Pterodactyls flying

> overhead at 5am and as a result thousands of years

> later you wake up in fear when a Boeing 747 goes

> overhead

>

> Wow I can see now how special you are now

> 🤔

Erm - disingenuous post. There is research to show for example that hearing in children can vary on a daily basis, that women during pregnancy can develop a sensitivity to noise (perhaps related to stress, hormones, exhaustion after birth etc) and a fairly common incidence of hyperacusis.

(General rant here not aimed at ArtfulDogger)Multiple reasons why someone might be more affected than someone else before you even get to the flight path, height etc. You can bat back and forth being affected or not till the cows come home and that's pretty much how this thread has gone - but you cannot tell someone else that they're not affected by it because you are not them. Great if you're not, sorry for you if you are. End of story.

HP

[toto]

edcam Wrote:

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> pop9770 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Edcam

> >

> > Have you not noticed the difference this

> morning?

> >

> > No noise

> >

> >

> > I think you are making assumptions ..

>

>

> Nope. No difference.

And how about this morning ? Come on ! You must be deaf !

[bobbsy]

This morning, 5.30 onwards, was loud.

[edcam]

toto Wrote:

>

> And how about this morning ? Come on ! You must be

> deaf !

Interesting that those who complain the most about the aircraft noise seem to think it's ok to insult those who aren't bothered by it. Don't you realise that it's 2016? It's no longer funny or acceptable to use disability as an insult.

Interesting correlation here though.

[pop9770]

bobbsy Wrote:

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> This morning, 5.30 onwards, was loud.

Yes it was terrible this morning. I had the same issues and sympathise with you it's a nightmare.

Take no notice of edcam and a few others trying to close your / my conversation down.

Apparently he lives in Camberwell so what he's doing on the ED forum is a mystery also his hearing is as you have noted not like yours or mine it's special.

Let's keep helping each other to vent our valid individual frustrations.

Hopefully the wind will blow the opposite way for the weekend when most of us want to sleep late ..

[Elphinstone's Army]

I feel this is an utterly disingenuous post disregarding an expostulation as a figure of speech.

It is possible to hear high pitched sounds, eg to be able to tell who

has their tv on, whilst walking past houses. Also, young people have more acute hearing

faculties than us oldies, hearing naturally deteriorates with age.

If you loved in the country you would no doubt be wakened by birdsong, which can

be annoying, gun dogs barking, tractors, church bells, all loud sounds we can familiarise

ourselves with and likewise, in the city, traffic, foxes, late night carousers, dustbin men, early morning car doors,

which do not bother us at all, as they are non threatening : proven by babies and young children sleeping through

familiar noise and sounds, unless a door slams suddenly perhaps, when a baby or young child will start, and cry,

a fearful alert.

however,

it is the PITCH of the engine noise which is

so disturbing, as though it was about to land on LL (or my roof), ergo, what the sensitive

to noise contingent are experiencing is the 'start and alert' phenomenon, albeit with curses rather than crying. Although I might try sobbing, perhaps it will help.

Edited for too many typos, and to remove last repeated paragraph

edcam Wrote:

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> toto Wrote:

>

> >

> > And how about this morning ? Come on ! You must

> be

> > deaf !

>

> Interesting that those who complain the most about

the aircraft noise seem to think it's ok to insult

> those who aren't bothered by it. Don't you

> realise that it's 2016? It's no longer funny or

> acceptable to use disability as an insult.

>

> Interesting correlation here though.

[edcam]

Elphinstone's Army Wrote:

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> utterly disingenuous post totally disregarding an

> expostulation as a figure of speech.

Figures of speech and their acceptability change over time. I have two deaf friends who find this sort of thing offensive. Their opinion on this subject is much more important to me than anybody else's.

[KirstyH]

Coming in to this conversation late re LHR (not read the other 17 pages) I'd note this on noise sensitivity - those that self-describe as noise sensitive know what they mean and can have conversations about it. Those that don't might have no idea what is being talked about (and may be prone to saying it doesn't exist). I think if noise was coloured or smelled like cigarette smoke you'd be able to have better conversations about it.

I think there must be a spectrum of how much stress noise causes. At one end one supermarket has an hour a week for autistic people - no music, range of other noise stimulants turned off/down. I'd personally much rather be in that environment, no pounding music, relentless aural adverts etc. There was also a news story about blood pressure and car noise last week.

Obviously you work around it, but the prospect of greater aircraft density is a real concern. Moving down here from Nth London a decade ago, I was gob-smacked at the aircraft noise. I can't work out when the week that you're supposed to have some respite is, I wish they'd publish it, like tide-tables.

[lbsmith73]

bored with this thread get some ear plugs!

[Elphinstone's Army]

KirstyH, thoughtful, perceptive post, thank you, followed by a not so perceptive post, proving your point precisely .

[fabfor]

Heathrow overvalued by ?86bn

Buried government figures reveal benefit to economy was vastly exaggerated

Graeme Paton, Transport Correspondent | Alistair Osborne

October 27 2016, 12:01am, The Times

Building an extra runway at Gatwick airport would bring similar benefits to expanding Heathrow

GETTY IMAGES

The economic benefits of expanding Heathrow airport were overstated by up to ?86 billion, buried government figures reveal.

Building an extra runway at Gatwick airport would bring virtually the same benefits to the nation as expanding Heathrow, the figures suggest.

Questions were raised over Theresa May?s endorsement of Heathrow after a Department for Transport report more than halved previous estimates for the size of the economic boost to be provided by Heathrow over 60 years.

The government analysis indicated that expanding Gatwick would yield ?54 billion in economic benefits ? marginally less than the ?61 billion attributed to Heathrow ? ...

[EDOldie]

I thought it was very noisy over the bank holiday weekend. Have the flight paths moved again? There seemed to be a lot of low flying aircraft at very regular intervals.

[klove]

The flight paths vary slightly according to wind direction and if it's westerlies we don't get them over us at all (only about 25% of the time though.)

http://www.heathrow.com/noise/what-you-can-do/make-a-complaint-about-noise

You can complain to Heathrow on above URL ... probably makes no real difference but at least it goes on their stats.

[toto]

klove Wrote:

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> The flight paths vary slightly according to wind

> direction and if it's westerlies we don't get them

> over us at all (only about 25% of the time

> though.)

I thought it was with EASTerly winds that we didn't hear airplanes so much...

[kford]

I heard the planes this morning, as usual, and thought this thread would open again. It's because of the wind and cloud cover.

[lavender27]

I complained about the aircraft noise about 20 years ago and the man at the end of the phone said he'd never heard anything like it regarding aircraft noise. No one ever listens to me, why should they, I"m only the Queen.

[RobMiller]

There's a Civil Aviation Authority consultation on aviation noise impact here: https://consultations.caa.co.uk/policy-development/aviation-noise-impacts/. I've filled that in and have also written to Helen Hayes to ask whether she is working with other MPs in areas affected by flight paths to lobby government about this.

I'm strongly of the view that the noise from flights into Heathrow and City has become much worse in recent years. Apart from the occasional week when Easterly winds mean the flightpath reverses, the flights are incessant (I took this set of photos in a ten minute period a few weeks ago: http://bit.ly/toomanyplanes). I think that the concentration of the flightpath (so aircraft are flying on a tighter route) might be part of the issue.

Maybe it depends on individuals' sensitivity to noise or how close your home is to the flightpath, but personally I find the persistence really annoying. While I understand that the planes do need to land, I'm not clear why the flightpath can't be varied from week to week to provide some respite... :(

[i*Rate]

RobMillar,

I wrote to Helen Hayes, Boris Johnson and Mr Khan about the increase in noise since I moved her in 1980.

I also complain regularly to Heathrow and always get polite and detailed replies. When(?) they build the third runway, they tell me that hey are planning to have quieter planes!

Fact is, us on the flight paths, really seemed to have no rights to peace and quiet nor any entitlement to compensation for the effect it has on our home life ( and in parks and woodlands too), so let's see what happens next.

Great to have a quiet day today; you get to realise what it was like pre. circa 1990.

cheers - fasten your safety belts - we're in for a bumpy ride!