New Locations for Streetcar

[Huguenot]

These guys have really hit on a great idea here (and I love it too!).

Streetcar have added 45 new cars this week, including Honor Oak and Peckham Rye

Complete list as follows: Streetcar Locations

If you're not yet a member, try booting out your own car and using these little jobbies. For those boogers only wanting to save the environment if there's a cash incentive, the AA reckon use of Streetcar instead of your own car saves ?3,000 a year. No excuse now.

There was an undercover Fifth Gear report on them which makes enlightening viewing! Click Here

PS No undeclared interest here, I'm just a fan!

[Muttley]

This is the future. I hope.

[bawdy-nan]

I think its a great idea, but, alas not for me. I'm just about to take my test (yikes) and can't hire until after two years. It worries me slightly that as I don't really intend to but a car there's a distinct prospect that I could pass my test, wait for two years without driving, and then let myself loose on other people's cars ...scary. Must find another way...

[Huguenot]

Gosh! I didn't know that.

It's not quite as bad as that (but still not good) - I've contacted them and they say it's only a year, and it's down to insurance (they'd have to raise prices for everyone).

Boo hiss.

[bawdy-nan]

I don't blame them at all. It seems perfectly fair to me. I wouldn't necessarily trust me with a car:)! But I'm going to be much worse at driving in a year without any practice than I am now! Good to hear its only a year though. I'd probably be happy to pay through the nose (to offset increased insurance rates) whilst I'm a baby driver. Am also embarking on Pass Plus after my test as I'm too scared of motorway driving.

[Dub]

Tried to sign up to this today, but they wouldn't have me with my Irish driving licence :( it was a v stressed woman on the phone tho so might try again tmoro. such a great idea....

um hi i'm new here btw......

[Dannyboy]

Me too - pretty impressed by this whole forum thing. Registered for streetcar by email and they've not got back to me yet, so I'm going to ring 'em up tomorrow. Hope I don't get the stressed woman.

[dc]

The closest Streetcar is near East Dulwich station - in Besant Place http://www.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?client=mycar&lon=-0.078820&lat=51.462250&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&rt=browse2&reclimit=1 where the Grove Vale Depot used to be.

There are other providers. City Car Club - www.citycarclub.co.uk - will have a site near North Dulwich station soon http://www.citycarclub.co.uk/cars/Delawyk_Crescent.htm. Streetcar are the closet to most of ED though

[louisiana]

And the one labelled Dulwich Common is in Overhill Road, up at the south end of ED.

Louisiana

[Dub]

ah a quick update, spoke to the loveliest Streetcar people today, bit of a training glitch yesterday and there's no probs with signing up.........thanks people for the pointers on the car locations........

[Jo]

I was in the same position Bawdy Nan, when I passed two years ago and looked into streetcar, and again last year when I passed the magic milestone. The other thing was that I kept going to look at the car, since it's just round the corner from me and it was never there. And I only ever went at the times I wanted it, which are regular and about three times a week, for about four hours at a time. In the end it worked out cheaper to keep my reliable little old car, even according to their calculator, which is a shame really. If it goes kaput then I'll think again before buying another one though.

Good luck with your driving test too!

[Huguenot]

Yes - you do need to be a little more organised, spontaneous journeys at the same time that everybody else has the same idea are not the forte. It works better if you do a little planning (e.g. I'll do the garden centre, sainsbury's and pick up that wardrobe from Tulse Hill on Saturday morning).

I've just booked the new Peckham Rye one for 4 hours next Saturday afternoon!

PS I hope nobody feels that 10 seconds planning isn't a price worth paying to avoid the ecological price of building a car?

[Jeremy]

> PS I hope nobody feels that 10 seconds planning

> isn't a price worth paying to avoid the ecological

> price of building a car?

I think streetcar is a great idea, but it's not suitable for everyone. And at the end of the day, the ecological issue is not the only consideration.

[Huguenot]

Indeedy, but for those people whose only issue may have been 10 seconds planning, I was hoping it may have a slightly higher priority.

Streetcar works at its best when the 8,000 private cars in ED are replaced by 1,000 car club vehicles from maybe 5/6 car clubs. Real spontaneous flexibility could then be delivered!

It would deliver benefits to users (low expense and high convenience), to residents (unclogged streets), to the car club (profits), and to the environment (eco footprint).

Of course even this would be redundant with solar powered quantum teleporters, but I'm not sure what the first steps are, so I'm sticking with Streetcar.

Incidentally, the biggest driver for an increase in number of Streetcars (and hence convenience) would be locals using them during the midweek, and more dedicated parking spaces. Has anyone got any of the latter going spare?

[SeanMacGabhann]

to be fair the ecological reason is pretty much up there as a reason - that and the issue of how many more cars can be squeezed into a finite amount of space

Jeremy, are you saying you have NO choice but to use a car or that using any other transport is too much of a hassle.

You might have no choice in which case fair play but for many people it often does boil down to "well I just don't LIKE buses/trains/length of time" in which case I would argue that ecology should be a bigger factor than they are currently allowing.

[Jeremy]

Sean, I am not saying I have no choice but to use a car. I am just saying that streetcar works best for those who only want to make occasional journeys.

Plus, I am not convinced that using streetcar is more environmentally friendly than using your own car. If you treat your car well, it should last for 10 years easily. A car-club car is not going to be in use for anywhere near that long. Plus, you will probably use more petrol in a car-club car : at least in Huguenot's example of using it to pick up things from the shops, and then drive it back to it's parking space.

[Huguenot]

You're right Jeremey, but the argument moves the goalposts. If there was only one user per car club car, then your argument would apply.

Car Clubs mean you don't build one car each. The idea is that the environmental benefits are in cutting car production by a factor of 5 or 6. The benefits are negligible in the actual use itself, unless the cash benefits of making fewer journeys influence the frequency of journey making. As I reckon, there are plenty of additional benefits.

Considering the age, well most cars can do 100,000 miles+ plus. Most cars don't last that long, because they're not properly looked after, or no longer trendy. Car Club cars are likely to be better looked after and more efficiently used.

The only people car clubs don't suit are the ones who are using their car so consistently that others can't use it during 'dead' time e.g. delivery men. If you're just using it to get to work, then you've got the whole working day when others could be making use of it.

[Jo]

My issue wasn't really the 10 seconds planning. I could happily sit on the net and book a number of journeys. My problem was the ?240+ per month it would cost me to do the journeys I usually do, plus the extra for the spontaneous. I'm not earning the way I used to so it's a consideration. I'd much rather use streetcar - I'd love not to have to look after a car:)- but can't afford to - it's that simple. (Perhaps this works out this way for me since the car was 'old' and cheap and I don't have to make payments on it or anything like that.)

[Jeremy]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Car Clubs mean you don't build one car each. The

> idea is that the environmental benefits are in

> cutting car production by a factor of 5 or 6.

Say (for the sake of argument) that you have 10 users of your streetcar vehicle. This hasn't cut car production tenfold, because the car will probably only last for a fraction of the time as a privately owned car would. It will probably be replaced by a brand new car within a year if it is being heavily used, and sold onto the second hand market.

> Car Club cars are likely to be

> better looked after and more efficiently used.

Again, I doubt this. Surely drivers would take better care of their own cars? Some people tend to drive hire cars more aggressively (and hence less economically), as they care less about wear-and-tear on the engine, or potentially damaging the car. Plus, you will often find yourself driving further if you're using a car-club car or hire car.

Sorry, I'm just not convinced that the environmental argument holds water... apart from the fact that the inconvenience might persuade you to drive less.

[Huguenot]

Gosh Jo, that's 48 hours a month driving? An hour and a half a day?

At an average 10 mph at 25 mpg (estimated London in an older car) you must rack up 48 hours x 10 mph = 480 miles @ 25 mpg = 20 gallons @ ?4 a gallon = ?80 to ?100 a month in petrol?

Remember, the Streetcar (as an example) includes petrol costs. So to compare with your ?240 you need to add up:

(Bought cost - Resale value) / months owned (be honest ;-)!)

1/12 of your annual insurance premium

1/12 of your road tax

1/12 of annual maintenance and repair fees (including emergency repairs, annual service, MOT make goods, oil, carwash, antifreeze etc.)

1/12 of annual MOT test

Monthly petrol costs

Interest on any car loan fees

I'm betting you may find it surprsingly close to your ?240.

BTW That many hours seems like a driving to work thing, that's where the question comes back to whether public transport can fit the bill: is it a 'can't' or a 'won't'...?

[Jo]

Not quite that amount of actual driving. I drive somewhere, stay there and then come back. Petrol is nowhere near that much :) But I admire your sums so I did them again based on your criteria - the actual cost of my car comes out at ?40 a month (I said it was old) and it's paid for so no interest. On the average of the last couple of years the MOT, services and wotnots come to ?40 a month (but it's damn reliable), then there's insurance at ?40, a tenner for road tax...So I'm at ?130, plus petrol, and I honestly don't put that much in (tiny car) - at most ?40 a month.

It's not so much of a won't as a can't - everywhere I can go I go by public transport, and firmly berate those who don't. I know someone who lives in borough and drives to the barbican, which is obviously absurd - that's not the kind of car owner I am. The other thing is that I was a new driver in the beginning and they wouldn't have me, otherwise I probably would have gone that way from the start, because I do think it's a great idea. My circumstances are different now too. It all adds up. That's all I'm saying.

[Huguenot]

I'm ecstatic that anybody will take the time to do the sums!! :))

[Huguenot]

Yay! New Streetcar in Friern Road

Ya da da dada...

Just here!