things I dislike about modern East Dulwich

[Louisa]

I dislike the way people with three-wheeled prams think they own the pavement, I swear these yummies should be made to take a pram test and get a licence and tax disc! ... Perhaps we should petition for a three-wheeled buggy lane along both sides of LL, that way the yups and their wee ones could walk along unhindered by some inconsiderate oldtimer out shopping or even worse a smelly unemployed working class person getting in their way! :) (it's enough to scare the life out the poor kids, those bizarre cockneys speaking a confusing form of English)

[Mark]

I second *Bob* about the bleating about prams (they're not all three wheeled). Why can't some people accept that people in cities have babies and need to move them around.

[Louisa]

Mark, it's always certain *types* of people who appear to have an affinity with these larger than life luxury three wheeled monstrocities.. is an ordinary pram not good enough?

[bawdy-nan]

There's not much to dislike though I find the constant hopping around dog shit down crystal palace road a bit miserable. (Though in combination with the fallen crab-apples and pears it does facilitate an excellent game of "Poire, poo or pomme".

The shops are mostly great, and I think its wrong to say the locals are more expensive than the supermarkets. I find being able to buy the quantity I want and the kinds of things I want makes for much more economical shop; especially if you're after the cheaper stuff. William Rose is cheaper than Sainsburys for chicken thighs and organic chicken and you get the giblets to boot (excellent for stock and the liver is just delicious fried with some chopped anchovies and finished with a little sherry or vinegar and parsley then chopped and served on toast - yum). I'm no yummy mummy but I really don't want to east factory farmed chicken and buy less meat to make sure I eat good quality stuff. I love that we have a butcher here. They sell gammon knuckle / ham hock things for about 2 quid which make for splendid soup and a load of delicious ham too. The sliced ham is much cheaper than the supermarkets too.

I wish the transport was a bit more reliable - more frequent and regular trains to elephant, for example, from denmark hill and peckham rye would hook us into the tube system.

The worst thing by far, is the cost of accommodation - house prices and rents.

I wish there could be more community interaction - everything seems very young family / young professionals orientated - older people seem very excluded as do teens.

[Jeremy]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> ... constant bleating on the forum about:

>

> Three-wheeled prams (it's only a pram, for god's

> sake - does it matter?)

> Butchers and greengrocers charging more for a

> better product that clearly costs more to produce

> and supply.

> House prices going-up (despite owning one for

> years and therefore secretly jumping for joy)

> City bankers ordering Moet and talking about

> share-dealing and house prices (I've never seen or

> heard one)

> Claphamites taking over (no-one on my street -

> where are they all?)

Did someone really suggest that ED is becoming overrun with city bankers? It seems highly unlikely if you ask me...

[TillieTrotter]

Hopefully a comedy night starting soonish above the Dog

[capt_birdseye]

I wonder which of the following takes up more room on a pavement?

Modern Pesky 3-wheeler:

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/buggy.png

Traditional side-by-side buggy:

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ce/century-double-pushchair.jpg

[*Bob*]

Louisa, please post some pictures of these teeny-weenie prams from the past - I can't find them in any of the pictures of my Gran, Mum, brother of I when we were babies.

In fact - they all seem twice the size of your average pram today.

[Louisa]

Yes and it's bizarre that in those days the street was not filled up with them - everyone goes on about unemployed low income single mothers, and yet I see very few of them when I go out and about in places like Peckham or Lewisham, and yet when I am home in ED, I cant seem to be able to move for them! The four-wheeled pram variety so wonderfully advertised above by capt_birdseye is a good example of a much bigger four-wheeled buggy, and yet I luckily rarely see them on the streets of ED, however those bloody three wheeled things are everywhere! Yummies.. please... stay home and watch daytime tv or something... take it in relays to go shopping for that must have stainless steel egg-cup in moo2...

[*Bob*]

Louisa, it must take-up an awful lot of your energy, being so bitter all the time.

You must be constantly exhausted.

[capt_birdseye]

I suggest that you should stay at home Louisa, all this rage can't be doing your blood pressure any good ;-)

[Louisa]

i'm on prozac - all is well :)

[bawdy-nan]

Louisa, do you really want a return to the days of the giant silver cross pram? Why are you so angry about children being seen on the streets? Is it that they take up your space? In which case, do you also object to older people and users of wheelchairs?

I'm lost as to why you are so cross about parents being out on the street? Were you kept at home as a baby / toddler?

Are you displeased with all children and parents? Whats your test? Y

[mockney piers]

Brilliant, like techtonic plates grinding up against one another this earthquake has been too long in coming.

I'd post up something about where's the love people, but that would be no fun.

Terry towelling tracksuits, I mean really, look at yourself for god's sake, and smoking above your children in any sort of pram/pushchair, 3-,4- wheeled or pogo-stick variety, NO!

Milwall fans who bray for ex-hammers to get injured even when playing for England, grow up for goodness sake. Rugger buggers who complain about East Dulwich being too football, move to Hampshire. Anyone who has chosen to spend more than half their life in this city and still supports ABE (Anyone But England) you don't _have_ to live here you know.

People who shout at bus drivers, why don't you trying working a long hard day and having to put up with lowlife scum shouting at you and still try and keep your dignity.

Mercs that don't seem to think the zebra crossing by GG roundabout applies to you, your day will come, my key is at the ready...

...phew.

Wasn't that cathartic now?

[Pierre]

is an ordinary pram not good enough?

an ordinary car isn't good enough.

A whacking great big one, however, shows how disproportionately important you think you and your offspring are. You can bleat on about its incredible brakes, its comfort, its arsenal of safety features, amazing speed and off-road ability while only using it to pootle around your local area. Something far less ostentatious is usually "fit for purpose"...

: P

[bawdy-nan]

but "ordinary prams" are absolutely enormous

[Louisa]

I find most of the parents I am refering to as annoying, obnoxious, arrogant, misguided and rude. Most of these people who I refer to as "three-wheeler buggy" types, tend to think they are the only people in the world with children, and therefore have some sort of right to just blindly force people into the road because they chose to procreate and take the result of this event out in some monstrocity of a luxury fashion accessory. I think they choose to come out at the most inappropraite times of the day, and they usually allow some of their tots (these people tend to have multiple numbers of kids) to walk along without any sort of support, so the child can freely wander in any direction.

Children should be seen and not heard, and when they are heard told to shut up.. Equally 'yummy mummy' *type* parents, should be aware that they are not the only people who want to go out shopping, especially at WEEKENDS, should therefore have a little bit more understanding of others. ;-)

[mockney piers]

And on a slightly more serious note. What is your problem with young families Louisa, did you not have one yourself at some point, were you not a child too?

Yeah 3 wheelers are a bit showy, but I just think what a great place it'll be to grow up for this lot with a huge group of pals, only sad I haven't managed to get my own mrs mockney 'knocked up' as she likes to say, in time to catch it.

And food hasn't been particularly organic since much past the post war era, so just because it wasn't in the lexicon in the 60s and 70s doesn't mean your food wasn't drenched in DDT.

I would say that the queues at William Rose are there for the good quality produce, reasonable prices and fantastic service, not because of some sunday times supplement aesthetics pretension.

[rob]

Louisa: William Rose - ie Dave the Butcher - was in Vauxhall, not Bermondsey, for years before moving to ED. He knocked out just as much ORGANIC material (and game and pies and eggs and whatever) then as he does now.

[bawdy-nan]

I'm not trying to provoke a fight.

I'm genuinely interested. Both of my children are out of buggies now (aged 4 and 2). We don't have a car so they've been route-marching for some time now but I have encountered some very angry people. Once, an older woman at a bus-stop very angry that I was proposing to take a (small) buggy on the bus. She made similar points to louisa about how in times gone by everyone had prams and you had to walk. Just curious about why it makes people so angry...

Louisa seems particularly focussed on certain *types*, as she puts it, and I wondered what her criteria were. Disposable income? Newspaper of choice? Level of education? Type of job? etc.

[Pierre]

Back on topic (although it's not confined to East Dulwich): children in pubs.

It's a pub, for goodness' sake! If you've chosen to spawn, don't be so ignorant and irresponsible as to assume that it's your right to try and ignore your infant offspring while you smoke and drink, leaving other grown-ups to suffer the children's bored attempts at social interaction ranging from polite to invasive to offensive. Please try and respect people who have gone to pubs in order to talk to other adults and don't want to be assaulted by burgeoning behaviour disorder-bearers whose progenitors are too selfish and infantile themselves to act like parents.

rrrrr...

: P

[TillieTrotter]

Blimey, some scary people in here today. Makes me want to pick up my children and made a dash to Italy

[Louisa]

bawdy I just get rather angry with the way people seem to have lost the ability to think about others and just selfishly act without thinking. The number of times I have seen parents who just completely ignore people in and around ED, almost as if they dont actually exist! I have even stepped aside once or twice to be nice to these people, and these two yummy types were walking along talking to one another in that rather annoying home counties way, and they completely ignored the fact I had stopped to let them pass... They even saw me and looked directly at me.. Now this sort of thing seems to happen more often than not to me, and I just find it really bloody rude..

[Parker's Folly]

Pierre Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Back on topic (although it's not confined to East

> Dulwich): children in pubs.

>

> It's a pub, for goodness' sake! If you've chosen

> to spawn, don't be so ignorant and irresponsible

> as to assume that it's your right to try and

> ignore your infant offspring while you smoke and

> drink, leaving other grown-ups to suffer the

> children's bored attempts at social interaction

> ranging from polite to invasive to offensive.

> Please try and respect people who have gone to

> pubs in order to talk to other adults and don't

> want to be assaulted by burgeoning behaviour

> disorder-bearers whose progenitors are too selfish

> and infantile themselves to act like parents.

>

> rrrrr...

>

>

> : P

Pierre I think there is a time and place to take kids to a pub, and it depends on the type of pub and the people who frequent it.

For example, I quite enjoy popping into the Dog for a drink in the afternoon or early evening, and tend to sit in areas which are non-smoking and away from any rowdiness. However, I would not drag my infant in there at 9 at night for example. Also, smaller and more crowded pubs such as the Bishop would not attract me when with children. I also know that the Dog is child and family friendly so I feel comfortable there.

Personally, within limits, I don't see why my wife and I should not enjoy a quiet drink in a pub during quieter times. When my daughter grows up and becomes a toddler, I shall hopefully be able to make a fair judgment call on whether she should be in a particular pub or not.

[capt_birdseye]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> bawdy I just get rather angry with the way people

> seem to have lost the ability to think about

> others and just selfishly act without thinking.

> The number of times I have seen parents who just

> completely ignore people in and around ED, almost

> as if they dont actually exist! I have even

> stepped aside once or twice to be nice to these

> people, and these two yummy types were walking

> along talking to one another in that rather

> annoying home counties way, and they completely

> ignored the fact I had stopped to let them pass...

> They even saw me and looked directly at me.. Now

> this sort of thing seems to happen more often than

> not to me, and I just find it really bloody rude..

Why don't you take it up with the offending people then, rather than lump together a vast group of people into a lazy stereotype? If I were to post the same post as you just have and substituted "yummy types" for "chavs" and "home counties" for "cockney" I would (quite rightly) be heavily criticised.