One hour free parking in the area...

[easytiger]

....on Lordship Lane and side roads to replace the 30 minute cap.

Council wants to save local shopping centres using this

model.

Anyone agree/disagree on this consultation?

[leenorris78]

I think 30 mins on lordship lane is fine, but I would as I live less than 5 mins walking distance. It is handy to be able to pop to a shop.

1 hr on the side roads would encourage more people to drive, rather than take the bus. Would this encourage more shoppers?

[TheArtfulDogger]

Got a notice today talking about this in the barry road area (near Barry's offlicence)

No problem parking around here during the day so why now introduce restricted parking spaces when they aren't needed?

Is this the start of a push for a cpz (again)

[spanglysteve]

what 30 min curb are you talking about, i always thought parking on LL was unlimited and free?

[tiddles]

I thought lordship lane was 20mins?

Why Barry road area? - that is unlimited

On the side roads there.

[nxjen]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Got a notice today talking about this in the barry

> road area (near Barry's offlicence)

>

> No problem parking around here during the day so

> why now introduce restricted parking spaces when

> they aren't needed?

>

> Is this the start of a push for a cpz (again)

The same is being proposed for the stretch on North Cross Road that includes ED and Lloyds the Chemist, currently parking is unrestricted but the council is consulting on introducing one hour free parking (talk about spin). Many people who park there now are residents and owners or employees of local businesses including those on Lordship Lane and if restricted parking is introduced it will only add increased parking pressure onto surrounding streets.

The accompanying paperwork suggests this proposal is being put forward to improve the local economy but this seems a little vague. I think, if accepted, the change would be more detrimental than beneficial. Changing from restricted parking to one hour's free parking seems like a good move, reducing unrestricted parking to a maximum of one hour not so. Can't help but think Council are hoping to slip something through here.

[first mate]

Fight this as hard as you can. It has to be first steps towards CPZ. As you all say parking in all these areas is NOT a problem it is already free. What planet is the council on?

[Dun]

Hi I agree with nxjen, I go to LL once a week for a coffee and then pop into 2-4 shops. 20-30 mins isn't enough to do more than 1 thing and the beauty of LL is that there are so many different types of ashopping that you want to go into a number of shops!

So increasing restricted shopping to 1 hour is helpful but changing unrestricted parking to restricted is not helpful as 1 hour is not enough time for a coffee and 3-4 shops.

Yes I could walk but then the walk back with heavy (if 1 stop was supermarket or fruit & veg or book shop or great find at charity shop) bags is not great. So while I usually walk if only going to one place I do drive for my weekly shop.

Please dont put in restricted parking in unrestricted areas! Worse case scenario is to do what they do around Herne Hill & Kings and only have restrictions from 12- 14:00 so that stops commuters parking all day but allows locals to visit.

[nxjen]

easytiger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ....on Lordship Lane and side roads to replace the

> 30 minute cap.

>

> Council wants to save local shopping centres using

> this

> model.

>

> Anyone agree/disagree on this consultation?

Hmmm ... this model may help in places where out of town shopping has killed the local high street but this solution isn't a one size fits all remedy. And with more and more outlets looking to open in Lordship Lane and surrounds, does East Dulwich "shopping centre" need saving??!!

[James Barber]

But 20 mins and 30mins isn't long to run an errand. Easy to over run if a queue in the post office. So intuitively we support this having proposed it in our manifesto.

I asked officers if they could share evidence of how much it would help local businesses. They said their is no such evidence. That this was a purely political decision.

Their is evidence that charging for parking and using any cash raised to improve the immediate area has had a huge positive impact on businesses. This feels very counter intuitive though and is spun by some as beign a war on motorists.

I'm not keen on creating new restricted pasrking where it wasn't restricted before. Espeically outside people's homes.

Biggest problem we have is the odd bullying local business removing the signs for existing restricted parking so they can park outside their business all day. I know this is dumb but it happens. We also have two locations where parking wardens don't dare place tickets on their own. The officer advice is to make them double yellow lines. We've resisted this for the impact on residents and so to speak innocent businesses.

[Siduhe]

I've just responded. Absolutely crazy to change unrestricted parking to restricted parking in these areas and suggest it somehow supports business when such a short time period is suggested. Would encourage everyone to go online and respond too as this also feels like the first steps to CPZ by stealth.

Just to balance this up, I did (when I responded) see a new Council consultation on Overhill Road which directly affects me (although this is the first I've heard about it). Opened it with a sinking heart, but pleasantly surprised to see what looks to me like a sensible, well thought out scheme to improve safety for cars and cyclists. So the Council can do it when they put their minds to it!

[kford]

This is the thin end of a CPZ wedge. Resist at all costs.

[Siduhe]

Here is the consultation link for those who would like to respond:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200140/parking_projects/3654/one_hour_free_parking_in_local_shopping_parades

[Penguin68]

As one might expect, the questions asked are simplistic - I found it easier to support NONE of the proposals - either the increase of time from 30 - 60 minutes nor the decrease of time from unlimited to 60 minutes (put as a single option) - but intead to input what I did want to see - which was an increase where there was a limit, but no limitation where previously parking was unlimited. Practically, to go to LL, shop and then perhaps have a bite to eat or sit in a cafe is a hard call in just 60 minutes. This is much more likeley to address their prima facie reason (increase local usage of local shops) without giving hostages to fortune in allowing this to be a CPZ wedge.

[robbin]

James - I believe you repeatedly meant "there" not "their"?

[kford]

I agree Penguin, the questions are far too simplistic - an hour is better than 30 mins, but not better if the restriction now applies on a Saturday; and it's certainly not better than unrestricted, especially in the case of LL.

[edanna]

Thanks for highlighting this - we haven't had anything through the door yet. Agree that the phrasing of the questions is not helpful - even though it seems a good idea for a 30 minute space to be turned into a 60 minute space I couldn't agree in principle with the notion of 1-hour parking if that will be applied to currently unrestricted spaces.

[1maura]

the letter from Southwark I saw related to local shopping parades, Lordship Lane (p96) at 352-367 Lordship lane, extending from thirty Minutes Mon-Fri 10-4 to one hour but also adds Saturday 8.30-6.30. This is the parking outside Sainsbury's Local near Dulwich Plough. And across the road outside Plough Homecraft etc they are asking about extending the psrking restriction from 30minutes to one hour Monday to Saturday 8.30-6.30

[worldwiser]

This only incentivises people bringing their cars into the area from outside at a time when it's practically at breaking point. It took me 20m to find a space within 6 streets of my house today - we need a CPZ as soon as humanly possible. Just a one hour restriction in the middle of the day is required, nothing more. It works absolutely everywhere else in London and I don't believe the circumstances of ED are so utterly unique so as to buck that fact.

[jacks09]

Could you send the link to Overhill please?

[Siduhe]

jacks09 Wrote:

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> Could you send the link to Overhill please?

Of course, it's on the same main consultation page:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/3657/overhill_road-_proposed_contra_flow_and_highway_improvements

[kford]

worldwiser Wrote:

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> This only incentivises people bringing their cars

> into the area from outside at a time when it's

> practically at breaking point. It took me 20m to

> find a space within 6 streets of my house today -

> we need a CPZ as soon as humanly possible. Just a

> one hour restriction in the middle of the day is

> required, nothing more. It works absolutely

> everywhere else in London and I don't believe the

> circumstances of ED are so utterly unique so as to

> buck that fact.

I've lived in CPzs all over London and they don't work. You'll still be looking for a spot, except now you'll be paying through the nose for it.

[mikeb]

My experience reflects Kford's: CPZs do not make parking easier except in a small number of circumstances.

A CPZ only makes parking easier where it reduces the number of people who want to park. Where cars parked belong mostly to local residents, then only very high parking prices will have any impact. In my view, only a very small amount of parking in ED is by people who don't live here. Who would want to park & ride for this rail service? http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1450284

It is possible that the edges of a CPZ may benefit as people are displaced to just outside the zone. But this is a temporary benefit as in short order the CPZ will be extended.

In addition, typically the introduction of a CPZ also reduces the total parking space available: lots of kerbside (around corners and entrances) that was previously unmarked and able to be parked safely becomes double-yellow as the CPZ is allied to some sort of enhanced safety review.

Controlled Parking Zones are largely just a tax on residents as implied by the comment in James Barber's post:

>>> There is evidence that charging for parking and using any cash raised to improve the immediate area has had a huge positive impact on businesses. This feels very counter intuitive though and is spun by some as being a war on motorists.

[James Barber]

Hi kford, mikeb,

Clearly some CPZ's work and some don't. It depends on the ratio of owned cars by people entitled to apply for parking permits vs. the space available to park.

I think a better argument locally against is local residents/councillors have twice rejected such parking. Some families have told me they've moved out of the area as a result near East Dulwich station which isn't good.

I get a couple of emails every week from people who are desperate to park near their homes. Near the Dulwich Leisure Centre is the latest painful area to live and own a car.

In the Herne Hill area of Southwark the CPZ does appear to work. Perhaps the house frontages are wider resulting in a lower ratio of resident owned cars to space available. The shops seem to thrive but it isn't a destination shopping high street as Lordship Lane and the CPZ only operates Mon-Fri noon-2pm.

Weirdly many business owners park outside their shops all day. So some real mixed messages.

[Penguin68]

Perhaps the house frontages are wider resulting in a lower ratio of resident owned cars to space available

There is a lot of off street parking around these streets in Herne Hill - this both reduces the pressure and makes life much more tolerable for residents - the problem was cars parking all day to use Herne Hill Station (which I did!) - this station serves both Victoria and Blackfriars/ Thames Link and was a real attractor. ED station is much less so - I can almost always find a space around e.g. Ondine during the day if I need to, it is only in the evenings/ at weekends that parking in this area becomes difficult, suggesting it is residents which are putting on the pressure, not visitors. This suggests that CPZs would not work here - it is only when parking is much less in the evenings than it is in the days (with no CPZ) that CPZs assist local residents by keeping 'their' roads clear of interlopers. Otherwise it's all about revenue generation and anti-car controls. I find that most of the areas around LL are pretty consistently parked day and night - the 'slack' caused by visitors leaving the area is not very noticeable. Suggests high local car ownership and not much chance of a CPZ having a positive impact for residents. [As I have said before, I have off street parking for 3/4 cars and am not really a personal player in this debate].