For the attention of ford fiesta owner starting NV02 parked on Upland Rd

[red devil]

NL, your point was that you found the term 'four black girls', in your words, 'pretty offensive'. I presume because the context of the stroy is crime related.

If they had been descibed as 4 white girls I wouldn't have felt, being a white person, offended, or that the 'net of suspicion' would have fallen on me. Is it only ok to use the term black when there is a positive element to a story e.g. Obama, but not when it is associated with negative events e.g. crime...

[SteveT]

Descriptive text is vital in these circumstances northlondoner, and if '4 black girls' is all that we get, then it does reduce the size of the field of selection.

Your first post on this issue irritated me when you verbally slap some one down for doing the right thing.

[SeanMacGabhann]

red devil - that point has been made by others and will be made again but it's only valid as far as it goes

As someone who's nationality was once looked upon less favourably, I know all to well the wince that accompanies any negative story and the obvious glee in which it is received in some quarters. The reason you wouldn't be offended about hearing about "4 white girls" is that there aren't whole political parties, various lunatic organisations and a sizeable quiet minority who want to see the back of "white people".

When you have to live with that kind of attitude towards you and your colour/race/sexuality, accentuating the positive is not just some glib desire

[Crona]

What you need to note when describing a suspect (according to police)

A. Location information

B. A variety of general description information about the suspect should be noted:

1. Sex

2. Race or national origin

3. Age (estimated)

4. Height-use comparisons with your own height, a door, or some other standard measure

5. Weight (estimated)

6. Build-fat, husky, slim, muscular, etc.

C. Facial information

D. Clothing information

E. Other physical features or peculiarities

I believe Spartacus managed to tick most of the first two and bit of the other ones. Well done to you. A lot of people wouldn?t have picked up the phone and call the police (but ignore and continue with their lives).

[Cassius]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> NL, is it ok to describe Obama as the first black

> president?..

Is he - I didn't notice.

[Louisa]

Goodness me has political correctness really taken us down a road in which it is offensive to name the colour of someones skin who is involved in a criminal offence? If I were the owner of this car I would be extremely grateful for having this brought to my attention, and indeed as a third party I am also very happy to know that someone has put out a warning about criminal activity going on in the streets surrounding me.

northlondoner approached this thread from a confrontational stance and seemed more interested in pointing out the negative of the opening post as opposed to the positive.

Louisa.

[MsJ]

Perhaps the reason this kind of description is taken offensively is that colour normally only get mentioned if the subjects of the description are black. People don't often bother using the word 'white' when offering a vague description of white people....

[SeanMacGabhann]

come on Louisa keep up - northlondoner has come back to address that point, and thank the OP. I think from what I have read that everyone finds the original post helpful. Take time out from "broken-record" repetition of "political correctness gone mad" and have a look at what I wrote about why some people get defensive

[Louisa]

Well sorry Sean but some people need to just grow up. A criminal offence has been commited and you people on here seem more interested in the details of the description as opposed to catching the people who did it! You wonder why so many people get infuriated by this sort of attitude? No racism has occured, just a description, if a person has a hang up about a racial description then that is their issue and no one elses. If I saw a group of girls of ANY ethnic background vandalising my car or a neighbours I would name each and every racial background and if it had been four girls of white origin I would do exactly the same thing.

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

"you people on here" - I'm sorry - apart from the original post by northlondoner, nobody on this thread has had any issue with the description given

See what you've done there? Made up an issue out of nothing and then attributed it to everyone else

Who needs to grow up again?

What I went on to do was to suggest a possible reason why some people might behave a little defensively - nothing on this thread is, as you rightly point out, racist. But then not every race suffers from racism and a teeeeny bit of empathy might help you understand where somebody like nothlondoner is coming from. It doesn't make them always right to be defensive - and fair play she came back fairly quickly.

But then again maybe you don't want to understand. And then that would get a bit creepy

[Louisa]

As you point out Sean racism and racial slurs affect all races in all countries and are not exclusive to one particular colour or creed. I have seen racism happening in a direct and indirect fashion in the workplace and in all sorts of institutions. If by using a useful and official description to name a group of potential criminals is found to be racist or offensive, then where do we go from there? this is just reactionary and beyond the pale in my opinion. Some people want to make an issue out of something trivial within a post which is actually quite important. I get accused of hijacking posts and turning them into a class issue, and many on here shoot me down in flames, but surely racism is a much more important issue and can lead to inflammatory posts. I have many black and asian friends and neighbours who would find northlondoners opening post laughable, so this isnt an issue of empathy, it is an issue of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I would not want to understand? What exactly do you mean by that?

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I said "unless" you didn't want to understand why some people get defensive. I wasn't saying you fit this description

We don't go anywhere because there is nowhere to go. Apart from an early defensive gesture, since withdrawn by northlondoner, no one is saying it is either of those things. So let it go

You might well be on the way again.. like I said, no-one is doing any of the things you are accusing them of. You gave it both barrels accusing "you people on here" and you can't show anything to back up your assertions.

true true, but in this case I think it's obvious that nothlondoner didn't want to do that. Over-reacted slightly but quickly retracted. Sheesh I wish more people did that.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I have heard many times that White People can be "prejudiced" against but not be the victim of "Racism" but when the Temporary job I was doing at Lewisham Council became available permanently and I got it, after an interview, only to be told 1 week later that "Black people were underrepresented in our Department" and that a new set of Interviews would have to take place and when I went to the loo b4 the next interview I was told I was too late for the interview and the belated Black candidate got the job forcing me to vacate the temporary position and leave the Council altogether as my job had effectively gone,well. ...........I DID have my doubts..:))

[SeanMacGabhann]

we are veering off subject now aren't we - any news on the incident itself?

But yes, filling diversity targets is a blunt tool Tony, but racism it ain't. Do remember why blunt tools like this are in place - there was a time not that long ago when it wasn't possible to get a job in this country because of the colour of your skin. And I suspect there are some work cultures where, without equal opportunites or whatver, it would revert back to similar lines

Last time I looked, white people (usually men) held most of the important jobs in this country. Couldn't say the same for Alabama in the 50s could you? Y'see that was racism...

[woofmarkthedog]

1st

To who ever owns this car. I hope you resolve this matter

2nd....Sparticus

Stick to;

Homosapiens commit world concept crime ,may not be relevant in other universe

Police won't catch anybody and other life force shall be not be aggrieved

( hey this is sounding good....might start cult/ religion ..like that other sci-fi guy....wassis name..)

[pommie]

why are people moaning about the description of these girls and why no more information about them was mentioned. Isn't it just nice that Spartacus even bothered to post anything about the car on here?

[SeanMacGabhann]

BECAUSE

PEOPLE ARE NOT MOANING ABOUT THE DESCRIPTION OF THE GIRLS!!!

sorry for shouting Admin - but people seem to be reading a different thread

[Magpie]

At risk of gatecrashing an argument how is the treatment of Tony by Southwark Council not racist? He was removed from his post and replaced on the basis that he was white. "Positive" discrimination it may be considered by some, but it is still a racist policy, in that it discriminates against him on the basis of his skin colour.

[Jeremy]

It's a thin line, Magpie. I'd say that racism is the belief that one race is superior to another, and that one's non-physical characteristics are - to an extent - determined by their race.

I'd say that Tony's treatement was discrimination, but not racism.

[Rolo Tomasi]

It was actually Lewisham Council

[jim_the_chin]

Jeremy,

Can you stay on topic please - this is an irrational, knee-jerk thread using half-baked ideas. If you want to post reasoned arguments can you please go elsewhere.

[citizenED]

I know this whole business might seem to get overcomplicated at times but you always must consider the ramifications of your actions. Stating the colour of the girls in the original post had no actual purpose. The only people who might need that info are the police themselves or perhaps the car owner (or their relatives or friends). The OP could have provided that information by PM if the car owner asked. For the rest of us, we absolutley do not need to know. The OP actually stated that the girls may not have been the perpetrators of the crime but, naturally, in the minds of many regular or casual readers of the forum they will ever be associated with the crime. The forum is open to the public - it's not a cosy chat between friends and neighbours, even though at times it might seem top be that way.

[Spartacus]

citizenED Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know this whole business might seem to get

> overcomplicated at times but you always must

> consider the ramifications of your actions.

> Stating the colour of the girls in the original

> post had no actual purpose.

Okay

I have had enough of the 'colour of skin' issue in this post, the post was made to alert the driver / owner / Registered keeper of the car that they had a problem.

The Description of the 4 girls was added to allow anyone else who saw them in the area at around the same time to add information that may be useful to the police or the owner.

To clarify CitizenED by posting information (as much as I could) about the girls actually serves two purposes

1. They, their friends or family may read this forum and discover that they have been seen acting suspiciously near a car with a broken window, as such it may pull them up short

2. If other forum members happen to see a similar group of girls acting suspiciously near their car it may well assist in alerting them to keep an eye on their or their neighbours cars for a bit to ensure that they aren't targeted.

As said in my first post on this matter, I didn't see the girls breakign the car window so can not say that it was them, however they were seen to be tampering with a crime scene (an criminal act in itself) and that is justification enough to alert others about them.

I am saddened that this thread has gotten into the colour of someones skin, to be honest skin colour doesn't come into the equation here apart from a description of who was involved, nor should racism (positive or negative) nor any other subject about race, creed or colour be discussed in this thread

[SingingWilks]

So northlonder thinks it is offensive to call someone black but yet it's ok to describe people as big, rough, viscious dogs?!

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,227050,227747#msg-227747

[Spartacus]

ENOUGH

LEAVE IT

NO MORE ON WHO SAID WHAT ABOUT WHO

OKAY

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