For the attention of ford fiesta owner starting NV02 parked on Upland Rd

[Spartacus]

Just to let you know that someone (or a group of someones) smashed your window and has taken your radio (and also been in your glove compartment)

This has been reported to Peckham Police station

If it helps

The window was origionally partially smashed at sometime between 8:10 and 8:50 tonight - Radio still there at the time

Sometime between 8:50 and 10:20 the rest of the window has been knocked out and the Radio removed

Reported to the police at Peckham at 10:40(ish) after a group of 4 black girls, aged between 14 and 18 (approx) were spotted interfearing with the car, looked to be trying to see what they could get out of the glove box before moving off down Upland Road towards Crystal Palace Road / North Cross Road

They appeared to return to the car again at about 11:20 (again reported to the police) and then moved towards Barry Road before turning left onto Barry road towards the Rye.

No idea if the group of girls were the ones responsible for the origional damage or the removal of the radio, or if they were taking advantage of the situation

I would advise that anyone who has a removable radio face plate makes sure that they remove it when leaving their car as this is not the first car on Upland Road that has had its window broken in the last few weeks (as reported to me by a friend)

Sorry if it is your car as this is not a noce situation to find yourself in

[northlondoner]

Spartacus sorry about your car but "four black girls" is a really silly description. It could easily apply to my daughter and her friends and is pretty offensive. Think before you post. Also interfering doesnt have an "a".

[candj]

Dear Northlondoner,

I do believe that Spartacus is just trying to be helpful and has taken the time to describe a situation for someone who will sadly return to find their car vandalised (their car, not his, if you read properly). I won't comment on whether or not "four black girls" is offensive or not as there are lengthy threads about this. However, the correction of typos IS silly and there are millions of typos on this forum! Relax!

Best,

-C

Edited once for a typo.

[RPED]

Spartacus, good on you for reporting this and ignore the comments from the north londoner....its not offensive.

The important point here is that Spartacus is being a good neighbour.

[FrustratedLawyer]

Northlondoner,

I can't imagine Spartacus was trying to be offensive and I don't believe that he was with his description of 'four black girls'. Whilst granted if Spartacus was a police officer he could have used the much more PC (excuse the pun) 'four IC3 females aged 14 to 18' but very few people on this forum would have known what he meant.

Whereas had he posted much more detailed descriptions on public forum he would have been reckless by seeming to tacitly encourage vigilante action. Not that I'm suggesting that there is a ED vigilante group, God forbid.

I'm curious by which words are you are offended; 'black' or 'girls'? The former is an accepted 'politically correct' collective descriptor of individuals of African or Afro-Caribbean descent (not exclusively). The latter can in some limited cases been perceived by some to be demeaning but certainly not for individuals in the stated age group, neither 'ladies' nor 'women' would have been suitable in this context.

[Huguenot]

I love that!

"sorry about your car but "four black girls" is a really silly description"

HA!

Four... black... girls...

It could be describing one blue cat, couldn't it? How silly!

Perhaps witnesses should do just that?

"What did you see sir?" - "Well, one blue cat on a hedge in Harrow" - "But sir, I was informed you saw four black girls interfering with the car and returning later at night?" - "Ah, yes officer, but I didn't want anybody to be under the impression that's actually what I saw"

On another note, it takes spectacular wit on a thread entitled "For the attention of ford fiesta owner starting NV02 parked on Upland Rd" to believe that the OP actually owned the car. North London indeed ;-).

[SteveT]

northlondoner wrote:- "four black girls" is a really silly description.

How is it a really silly description, explain yourself?

Some of us using this forum have begged the victims for better descriptions of the perpetrators of crime, when it happens you think it is silly, WHY?

How would you have described this scene?

[Jeremy]

I've said it before, I'll say it again... you can't say the "B" word on here without offending someone. But "4 black teenage girls" is a very useful description in the eyes of any rational person.

Well done for being a conscientious neighbour, Spartacus.

Although I'm surprised that anyone steals car radios these days, I thought standard dimension head units were a thing of the past?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Overall I love being 54 as every age as its compensations.

However, every age has its "frustrations" as well.

I've been interested in criminality since the late 1960's and at least, then, people did give a description of the suspect(s) and "we" realised "in addition" to the usual rogues/bounders/bad eggs in an given area at any given time that "we" had a particular current problem as criminals were especially prevalent in our area at that time.

So "we" wanted the best description possible, even if it was "only" skin colour as "every little bit" helps.

In an area of Bristol recently there was a contemporary problem about cyclists getting "jacked" en masse and finally descriptions were given and 2 large gangs (one Somalian and 1 Jamaican) were identified. This helped cyclists to be more vigilant and I very much doubt if any of those cyclists immediately stigmitised "all" Somalians/Jamaicans in that area but it did help.

When will "some" eople realise that by NOT releasing any description for fear of causing upset, that they are efeectively protecting the thugs/scammers/lowlife in our Society.

I know criminals laugh their socks off at the fact that their chosen circle of victims would, sometimes, not even proffer a description for fear of causing offence and like ANY criminal I would think they are "mugs" and deserve all they get. Problem is though, that this also means that others, unfortunately, also get "all they get" as well because some victims have not been as forthcoming with any description as they could have been.

Anyone who fails to disclose descriptions, where possible, is, unintentionally, complicit and only adds to the problem imo.

Yes! "Think" indeed! but THINK about giveing as clear a description as possible.

p.s Sorry I spelt "givEing" wrongly, as immediately above.

[Moos]

Well done, Spartacus.

[TJS]

Great work Spartacus....

[candj]

TLS, "giving" does not have an "e" in it.

;-)

[Huguenot]

Great post TLS.

[northlondoner]

My point is simply this ...."four black girls" is so vague a description as to be useless. What were they wearing..how tall were they...what did they actually LOOK like - other than simply black. Four white girls would be equally useless.

Of course racial/ethnic characteristics are perfectly legitimate when part of a functional description - but is really unhelpful as the SOLE or dominant factor.

It doesnt help police, prosecutors or the public. In fact it's part of the reason eyewitness evidence can be so hard to stand up in court.

And yes, well done for looking out for a neighbour!

[Jeremy]

northlondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My point is simply this ...."four black girls" is

> so vague a description as to be useless. What were

> they wearing..how tall were they...what did they

> actually LOOK like - other than simply black. Four

> white girls would be equally useless.

Four teenage girls walking around East Dulwich at 11pm is not that common (especially if they were carrying a car radio!). Someone else may have seen them, and could offer a further description. A parent might know that their child was out at that time, and usually hangs around with 3 other friends. Maybe *you* don't find it useful, that's your call. Honestly, objectively... it's only offensive if you find the work "black" offensive.

[paulino]

the description eliminates men...and eliminates white girls. that's a start, surely.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

northlondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My point is simply this ...."four black girls" is

> so vague a description as to be useless. What were

> they wearing..how tall were they...what did they

> actually LOOK like - other than simply black. Four

> white girls would be equally useless.

>

> Of course racial/ethnic characteristics are

> perfectly legitimate when part of a functional

> description - but is really unhelpful as the SOLE

> or dominant factor.

>

> It doesnt help police, prosecutors or the public.

> In fact it's part of the reason eyewitness

> evidence can be so hard to stand up in court.

>

> And yes, well done for looking out for a

> neighbour!

I agree we need as much information as possible northlondoner.

Your points are valid.

There can be "exceptions" though!

20 years ago "my" area was not Multi-Cultural at all and Betting Shops in my locality were getting robbed by 3 Guys who did not fit the description of 99.9% of the local residents, so stood out accordingly, and were apprehended more quickly than they otherwise would have been.( My M8 was a Betting Shop Manager, he contacted The Police when 3 Guys visited and stayed in his shop and his suspicions were aroused and it transpired that they WERE doing some "research" into his shop and that was done purely on colour of skin.

They were convicted of the other robberies.

Move the story on by 5 years and HSBC and 1/2 other local Banks in my area were "done" again by Guys who "stood out" and I "assume" that might have been a factor in their early capture.

[Strawbs]

Sparts - well done you I say and ignore anyone who has claimed your description is offensive.. If it had of been 4 white girls that did it and you described them as 'four white girls' I would not be offended in the slightest AS FACT IS THEY ARE WHITE!!!!

Northlondoner - are you sure your name is not honk?

[SeanMacGabhann]

tried not to get involved in this one but here goes

I think the description is, if accurate, potentially useful and don't see any problem with the OP

Part of the reason some people get twitchy is the knowledge that plenty of racists do exist out there and that every time a description involves a black person, it fuels their notion of what black people are like, and not any motivation to solve the crime. Be clear I'm not saying anyone posting on here fits this description but I don't think it's a case of anyone finding the word "black" offensive either and I just wanted to add that

If it's a sorry old world where we can't describe a persons colour without a broo ha ha, well there are reasons and pretending we don't know what those reasons are is as unhelpful as not being able to describe potential perps

[matthew123]

So what if Spartacus had said there were 4 girls who were 5 foot tall, or even 4 girls all wearing England rugby shirts - would that be offensive!? What I find really offensive is northlondoner suggesting Spartacus's post is in anyway offensive.

[Spartacus]

Dear NorthLondoner

It was dark, street lighting isn't over the side of the road where the incident happened and the only additional information I can give is that one of them was wearing a cream or white hat (the quality of the street lighting wasn't good enough to determin exact colour not any other details that would be useful in your opinion)

Hopefully the police, if they were in the area and saw a group of girls, could have stopped and questioned the right group at that time of night based on the limited description that I gave to them, the proximity to the car and not stopped a different group of girls who may have been asian, oriental, Native American, Native Australian, white or even Robbie Williams mates getting back into their UFO (green) - as TLS said, any information given to the police is better then none at all, and hopefully the additional information concerning their approximate age (I find it harder to tell young peoples age these days) their location, the direction they were walking, where they went next and number of girls together would have helped a passing patrol car at the time.

Spartacus

PS as for spelling, I may have failed English last night due to too much of the Emperors wine, but my Latin is excellent.

[red devil]

NL, is it ok to describe Obama as the first black president?..

[northlondoner]

Will everyone just chill! S, like I said, well done for being a good neighbour - one of the great things about E Dulwich is the sense of community. The more of us who acted like you the better... res ipso loquitor. Plus point taken about the prevaling id conditions. And sorry for being anal about the spelling! Pax?

RD - you're missing the point. It's not the use of the term black I was objecting to - it was the sheer breadth of the net of suspicion cast by the phrase. I am a black person and am proud of the fact and have no problem with use of the term.

Strawbs - see above...plus...what is this "honk" you speak of?

TLS - very good point. "Four black girls" description in Devon village would be fine. They's stand out.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Good post northlondoner.

[lilolil]

and what colour is this car????????????????????/ (sorry but someone had to ask???)