Proposed changes to admissions at Harris Girls - Making it harder for local girls to get a place.

[hpsaucey]

Another question - is it likely to happen with the Boys school too?

[landsberger]

Who knows? I think Harris are not impressed with the local population and are seeking to get a "better class of pupil" like Kingsdale have by introducing random allocation, though rumours persist that the latter's "random" is not random at all, but based on whether you are likely to produce good results for the school. If it "works" for the girls, presumably they will roll it out for the boys.

Harris get away with it because...well, look at Lord Harris and which party he belongs to.

[katgod]

Is it the usual Harris band in a bell curve ( lots in the middle of the ability range and very few at either end) or like Sydenham and Forest Hill with equal numbers in each band? Girls from local primaries who do well in SaTs/ banding tests seem likely to lose out to me.

[intexasatthe moment]

" How does Harris get away with this ? " - sorry ,that was a rhetorical question .I know very well how Acadamy chains/Foundation/Free schools use their power and status as their own admissions authorities .

Renata - would you know Southwark's position regarding Admissions Forums ? I appreciate that this is no longer mandatory ( though recommended ) and that when it did exist it seemed largely powerless ( The Charter's long standing refusal to recognise the pedestrian route along Wanless Rd comes to mind ) but .... I'd still be interested in knowing if the LA has any input re schools admissions .

I note that you put your thoughts into the consultation process .Was that just as a private individual ?

[henryb]

It looks like the Shelbury Rd and Colyton junction is roughly half way between the boys and girls school by road. I wonder if that was the reason.

[intexasatthe moment]

Yes - hadn't thought of that !

[tomskip]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Monkey,

> It has, after the usual priority allocation, 1/3

> of remaining places will be allocated on distance

> (but only up to 1km), the remaining 2/3 will be on

> random allocation (ie Kingsdale style lottery).

>

>

> http://www.harrisdulwichgirls.org.uk/uploads/key_i

> nformation/2_0_admissions-policy-2016-17.pdf

>

> I'm not a fan of random allocation, I did put in

> my thoughts into the consultation process.

> Renata

Terrible news! It just doesn't work when some schools run a lottery and others don't. It is so deeply unfair. But, then, expecting fairness out of state-funded comprehensive secondary education is probably too much to ask eh?

[HannahSE23]

Tomskip... It's expecting fairness out of a school that's no longer under local authority control that's too much to ask for. Harris is an academy... sadly they can do what they like re admissions. And given that this government wants to create more academies and supports free schools we can only expect increasing disparity, confusion and unfairness when it comes to school places.

[tomskip]

Yes hoona, I am fully aware of all that. My comment about fairness was meant to be ironic. There's much to be said for state funded schools being kept under LA control in my opinion. Just been reading a thread about the new Charter school which appears to be being creative with its proposed admissions policy too. I never was a cynical person until I became full immersed in the school admissions process!

[landsberger]

I get annoyed when people blame the Council - who have nothing to do with secondary admissions, other than in a coordination role. Face facts, all schools would probably be selective if they could, and the kids who don't pass muster - tough.

[James Barber]

I say again - Southwark Council/Labour have zero strategic contact with the Harris Federation. I've spoken to Harris and they'd welcome such meetings. They only started met Haberdasher's after I organsied a meeting as an opposition councillor about a possible new school.

So landsberger I disagree. Southwark Council is responsible for education but after the last two governments has to excercise this over academies using soft skills. But if you don't meet, and Renata please don't confuse you popping nito the harris Girls school as strstegic meeting, to talk about strategic issues you don't get to use any soft skills to influence people.

And the new policy of this school isn't good for our area in my opinion.

Has anyone reviwed it against the government code - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389388/School_Admissions_Code_2014_-_19_Dec.pdf

If it breaches this code we can appeal to the Schools Adjudicator by 30 June.

[LondonMix]

I?m no apologist for Harris as most know but did anyone who attended their consultation meetings hear the rationale for the nodal point? I addition to it being circa halfway between the girls and boys schools, it could simply be a reflection of potential need / shortfall. For instance, once you are further East into Nunhead (like Ivydale) it appears you have a very decent shot at getting into Habs Hatcham and Pendergrast. They may have been trying to deal with the perceived shortfall in the East of Dulwich, particularly if there is no immediate shortfall in the East of Nunhead / Lewisham.

I?d like to know before denouncing them for having a nodal point (which many parents are asking for as part of the new Charter School?s admission policy).

Cynically, I imagine that they want to keep their admission more Dulwich focused in light of the new Charter school and this is one way to help ensure that.

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It looks like the Shelbury Rd and Colyton junction

> is roughly half way between the boys and girls

> school by road. I wonder if that was the reason.

[LondonMix]

What element of Harris's admission policy do you believe violates the document you linked to? I haven't read through it so I am just hoping you can highlight what is causing your concern to save me some time!

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I say again - Southwark Council/Labour have zero

> strategic contact with the Harris Federation. I've

> spoken to Harris and they'd welcome such meetings.

> They only started met Haberdasher's after I

> organsied a meeting as an opposition councillor

> about a possible new school.

>

> So landsberger I disagree. Southwark Council is

> responsible for education but after the last two

> governments has to excercise this over academies

> using soft skills. But if you don't meet, and

> Renata please don't confuse you popping nito the

> harris Girls school as strstegic meeting, to talk

> about strategic issues you don't get to use any

> soft skills to influence people.

>

> And the new policy of this school isn't good for

> our area in my opinion.

>

> Has anyone reviwed it against the government code

> -

> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa

> ds/attachment_data/file/389388/School_Admissions_C

> ode_2014_-_19_Dec.pdf

>

> If it breaches this code we can appeal to the

> Schools Adjudicator by 30 June.

[nunheadmum]

LondonMix - fewer and fewer Ivydale kids are getting into Habs or Prendergast and more and more are getting Harris Girls. As the year groups start to hit where the massive surge in children started to show, (probably from this/next year's intake onwards, where bulge classes started being needed at the primary intake) the problem is only going to get worse as Habs and Prendergast have more and more local kids to fit in, leaving a much smaller catchment area.

The change in the Harris Girls admissions policy could really hit us hard! Whether you like Harris or not, at least it was an option we had which we may no longer have if we're over 1km away from a spot closer to ED than Nunhead than the school is.

[landsberger]

And I say to you, Councillor Barber - you absolutely do not know what you're talking about. That'll be Southwark Council who invite Harris along (but who rarely, if ever, attend) to all primary and secondary heads gatherings ? Who regularly engage with Harris at an advisor level? Who admissions speak to on a regular basis ? Harris are the dog in the manger here, ask their CEO - why the first time we hear about proposals is usually via Southwark News?

[INMCD]

Nunheadmum is right. We're just off Ivydale Road and still waiting for a school place for September (my daughter got none of her 5 choices but was offered Harris Peckham!). The furthest distance that Haberdashers offered in the top band was something like 280 metres (defintely less than 300 metres) so most children from Ivydale and surronding roads wouldn't have a hope of getting into Haberdashers. This year has been partiuclarly bad with hardly any children getting their 1st choice so I really hope that the new school takes the pressure off slightly next year. x

[landsberger]

INMCD, I wouldn't hold your breath, they haven't even worked out the admissions policy yet, and the numbers - like Ivydale's may be less in the early stages than later on.

[juliap]

I am very concerned about this change to Harris Girls admissions coming in before there is an absolute guarantee of Charter East Dulwich opening to pupils in 2016.

The Lewisham community schools have announced a change to their admissions (coming into force for the next round of applications) to distance only rather than distance / banding, which seems to make it less likely that ED girls will get into Sydenham.

At a time when there is already an acknowledged pressure on school places in the area, it doesn't seem fair for the Lewisham change and the Harris change to hit us as well.

In my view, this proposed change to Harris Girls admissions should not be allowed to go ahead until the following year, when there will definitely be an alternative local option for girls who don't get a place at Harris via the lottery.

[INMCD]

My daughter didn't get a place at Sydenham Girls this year due to distance - our application was dealt with purely on that criteria. We had no idea that was going to happen as other girls near us have got in before. Southwark came to school to speak with parents and they never gave us any indication that applications for Lewisham schools would be based on distance! Pretty disasterous really. x

[juliap]

Sorry to hear that INMCD. The situation seems to be getting worse each year, which makes me worry even more for the girls who are currently in year 5. If the new school opens, all will be well but if not...?

[tomskip]

All the so-called catchments are shrinking as the number of children moving up to secondary school is rising. The new secondary is very much needed in East Dulwich - such a shame it couldn't have been ready a couple of years earlier! All the data was there to indicate the need.

[landsberger]

Why would *Southwark* Council tell you about LEWISHAM admissions ?

INMCD Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My daughter didn't get a place at Sydenham Girls

> this year due to distance - our application was

> dealt with purely on that criteria. We had no

> idea that was going to happen as other girls near

> us have got in before. Southwark came to school

> to speak with parents and they never gave us any

> indication that applications for Lewisham schools

> would be based on distance! Pretty disasterous

> really. x

[landsberger]

Actually, the data wasn't there to prove the need, as overall (at the time) there were enough - there presently are enough places in Southwark secondary schools.

[tomskip]

(At the time) is not the same as anticipating the need for more secondary school places in the immediate future, and planning accordingly.

As it is we have families in ED breathing a huge sigh of relief about the new co-ed school, when it doesn't even have a temporary site yet but it supposed to welcome 240 pupils just over a year from now.

[landsberger]

If the school opens in 2016, it may not take the full complement of children to begin with. I can hear the complaints already...