Rev Canon Charles Richardson

[buddug]

Mr Ben, how do I know: "...But days before he was due to answer police bail he appears to have killed himself by jumping off a cliff in St Margaret?s Bay near Dover." (Daily Mail). I'm saving my compassion for his truly tormented victims. At least he's no longer spending his Church of England wages on perpetuating their suffering.

So, no, Robert Poste's Child, he was not a 'passive' consumer. Without him and the thousands of others there would be no demand needing to be met. And, again, it is not porn. It's the torture of children, which some people enjoy watching for pleasure. The most sadistic crime imaginable.

[Bubbles]

I agree! This man abused the trust and position he was in! He was supposed to enforce the Child protection policy both at the church and school. He should have reported the videos not enjoyed watching them!

[Robert Poste's Child]

For goodness' sake, do think before you post.

Buddug, you say you're saving your compassion for the victims. Fine, but I don't see any expressions of compassion in any of your posts. You probably know already that people who watch that kind of thing have usually been abused as children themselves. Black and white thinking like yours never resolves anything.

Bubbles, the truth is you don't know that he 'enjoyed watching' the films: you don't know what his motivation, intentions or state of mind were. There is no suggestion at this stage that he didn't protect children at the church or the school. Your argument would come across as more reasonable if you phrased it accurately.

[newboots]

Is it wrong to be judgemental of people who like to watch videos of child abuse then? I think that is asking an awful lot of the average person, whether they identify as Christian or not, RPC.

[Bubbles]

RPC, People are entitled to download whatever they wish and enjoy whatever they want and yes I am making a huge assumption here that he "enjoyed" watching these videos, but why would you download images, films, videos or music that you don't like or enjoy???

[buddug]

I'm not thinking clearly Robert Poste's Child?? There's no debating with someone who has made such a leap of faith that he now believes it not beyond the realms of possibility that this man actually might have 'protected' children locally. You mean from himself? This is nothing but fantasy. I'm not saying he acted out his perversions - not all these people do - but to say he might have been a protector of children is ludicrous in the circumstances.

And he might not have enjoyed watching these videos? He paid to download them. They are not free. It is well-documented that the police who deal with these crimes have to have enforced breaks and counselling because they soon start to suffer from post-traumatic stress after viewing these heart-breaking videos, as would most people.

[JohnL]

Bubbles Wrote:

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> RPC, People are entitled to download whatever they

> wish and enjoy whatever they want and yes I am

> making a huge assumption here that he "enjoyed"

> watching these videos, but why would you download

> images, films, videos or music that you don't like

> or enjoy???

This operation was supposed to be "level 1 abuse" - but it

was paid for from what I can tell (only my opinion).

The people behind it were definitely not level 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_International_child_pornography_investigation

[Mustard]

Strangely, Pete Townsend got off on something similar. He said he had been abused himself and that was why he downloaded them.

[RosieH]

I know nothing about this man's innocence or guilt and will pass no comment on that.

However, the notion that these films are something that can be passively consumed is nonsense and ill thought through. These are not Japanese anime, these are not victimless.

As has already been stated, in order for a film to exist, (to be "passively consumed"), a child has to have been brutally tortured on camera. The demand is what generates these films. If there was no demand, many of these children would not be raped.

I have compassion for people who struggle with their sexual desires, especially those whose desires are beyond the pale. Humans are indeed complicated creatures, and I'm sure many of us on here have, at times, dark thoughts that we'd prefer were never brought to light. However, acting on our desires, when it causes harm to another, deserves no compassion - understanding and insight yes - but forgiveness is only for the abused to offer.

[JohnL]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know nothing about this man's innocence or guilt

> and will pass no comment on that.

>

> However, the notion that these films are something

> that can be passively consumed is nonsense and ill

> thought through. These are not Japanese anime,

> these are not victimless.

>

> As has already been stated, in order for a film to

> exist, (to be "passively consumed"), a child has

> to have been brutally tortured on camera. The

> demand is what generates these films. If there

> was no demand, many of these children would not be

> raped.

>

> I have compassion for people who struggle with

> their sexual desires, especially those whose

> desires are beyond the pale. Humans are indeed

> complicated creatures, and I'm sure many of us on

> here have, at times, dark thoughts that we'd

> prefer were never brought to light. However,

> acting on our desires, when it causes harm to

> another, deserves no compassion - understanding

> and insight yes - but forgiveness is only for the

> abused to offer.

In this case the films were supposed to be naturist

- no-one believes that and it wasn't true.

The worrying stat is the number of subscribers.

[buddug]

An excellent post, Rosie H. And forgiveness, if possible, indeed lies only with those abused. Unfortunately, most of these children - and thank God, many were rescued during this case - will have been terribly damaged and the rest of their lives blighted by what they've been through.

[Concerned Parish 2]

OK. Thanks KidKruger, now I?ve had time to wait outside the head teacher?s office, received my telling off, perhaps I can try and explain ? not excuse.

For anyone who has been in the congregation at St John?s, Fr Charles has been a big part of our lives. He was charismatic, funny, sensitive and a good preacher. He baptised our children, officiated at weddings and buried friends and relatives. He listened to our problems and visited us when we were sick. Essentially he was at the centre of many of our most intimate joys and sorrows. For anyone close to him, this is a shock that will inevitably take some time to come to terms with.

Put this on the background of terrible communication from the church. For 6 months the party line was that he had stepped back from ministry. We were worried for his safety and wellbeing in this time. In November we were informed of his death. The circumstances behind his death were not disclosed and it was left to Rev Google to impart the news of his violent end. Personally I have found this latest news immensely distressing, coming after the months of emotional upheaval.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone by my comments and I certainly don?t think that I am without sin. I am well aware of my many limitations and weaknesses and aware that I have many I cannot see. I really don?t wish to sound sanctimonious but I do care about the victims of these crimes ? where ever they come from.

[Loz]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> I think Loz's point was (though I don't want to appear presumptuous, so please correct me if I'm

> incorrect Loz) that Christians advocate 'forgiveness' and 'understanding' and there was

> little evidence of it on this occasion, or does Christianity have a high-water mark above which

> it's a free for all ? That's my impression of what was said and it was a reasonable comment IMO.

Yep, that's it KK. The man is dead. I'd have hoped a Christian would forgive his sins of this life and pray his soul finds some sort of peace and redemption in the next. As in "and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us ..."

Sometimes, extremes are always a good test of faith and belief. Anyone can forgive a saint.

[Administrator]

Time to Lounge this. It's obviously emotive and of course the discussion can go on but it's no longer about East Dulwich, people have heard the news about Rev Canon Charles Richardson and they can find out more on the new channels.

[Melph91]

-- moved topic --

[buddug]

It seems to be so easy for you, Loz, to forgive this man for his crimes and to castigate those of us, Christian or not, who can't while all of this is so fresh. You're as judgmental as the rest of us. I take it you have no children. If a child of yours was harmed in this way, and you knew certain men were downloading videos of this harm to watch for their sadistic enjoyment, you might feel differently, no?

As people say, it is not for us, in the comfort of our safe homes, to forgive this most heinous of crimes. It is up to the victims, eventually, and those closest to them. If they can't, then that has to be respected, surely. I couldn't give a monkey's flying toss for this man. It's a shame he fooled so many people. I, like most people here, can think only of his victims at this present moment. He killed himself only when the net was closing in, and very likely not because of any self-loathing or guilt, but simply from fear of being exposed in his parish. Had he not been found out, it's probable he'd simply have carried on.

[KidKruger]

I've not seen a single post yet on this thread which excuses, forgives or apologises for the man.

But there are many many posts accusing others of doing just that.

[buddug]

KK, are you blind? Loz just said: "I'd have hoped a Christian would forgive his sins of this life and pray his soul finds some sort of peace and redemption in the next. As in "and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us ..." I take that to mean he is able, despite not knowing his victims, to forgive this man, and is castigating us for not doing likewise... Am I wrong?

[Robert Poste's Child]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> However, the notion that these films are something

> that can be passively consumed is nonsense and ill

> thought through. These are not Japanese anime,

> these are not victimless.

>

> As has already been stated, in order for a film to

> exist, (to be "passively consumed"), a child has

> to have been brutally tortured on camera. The

> demand is what generates these films. If there

> was no demand, many of these children would not be

> raped.

>

> I have compassion for people who struggle with

> their sexual desires, especially those whose

> desires are beyond the pale. Humans are indeed

> complicated creatures, and I'm sure many of us on

> here have, at times, dark thoughts that we'd

> prefer were never brought to light. However,

> acting on our desires, when it causes harm to

> another, deserves no compassion - understanding

> and insight yes - but forgiveness is only for the

> abused to offer.

RosieH, I'm familiar with the arguments against child porn and I already said that of course it's vile and wrong. At the same time I do consider that people who 'only' think about or watch that kind of thing - while both of those are certainly abhorrent - are not in the same class of evil as the people who act it out, whether privately or for commercial gain. Personally I don't think that's unreasonable.

[buddug]

You are wrong, Robert Poste's Child. And please stop calling it porn. It is nothing to do with sexuality, no matter how twisted, it is everything to do with child torture and sadism. Without the demand of these sickos, there would not be a need for the supply. Of course, paedophiles would continue to abuse children, as they always have done and always will, but the industrial scale of this horror, would not exist. What is it about this simple fact that you don't understand.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Of course it's based on supply and demand, like any other industry. Silly of you to berate me about something I haven't actually said.

[Loz]

buddug Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KK, are you blind? Loz just said: "I'd have hoped a Christian would forgive his sins of this life

> and pray his soul finds some sort of peace and redemption in the next. As in "and forgive us our

> sins, as we forgive those who sin against us ..." I take that to mean he is able, despite not

> knowing his victims, to forgive this man, and is castigating us for not doing likewise... Am I wrong?

Buddug,

I absolutely do not condone anything he did and I am certainly not apologising for him. But he's dead. It's over. And yes, if there is indeed an afterlife I hope his soul finds some redemption.

But I did not know the man. You obviously were much closer to him and feel personally betrayed by him. I'm not castigating you, just pointing out how Christianity says a Christian should move forward. And under all the religious dogma, sometimes there are actually some useful lessons.

[KidKruger]

"...it is nothing to do with sexuality...."

You may want to rethink that comment.

[numbers]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I absolutely do not condone anything he did and I

> am certainly not apologising for him. But he's

> dead. It's over. And yes, if there is indeed an

> afterlife I hope his soul finds some redemption.

No it's not over though, is it? Certainly not for the victims of child abuse who have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.

Really cannot believe some of the comments on this thread and I also wish that people would stop calling it 'child porn'. It is child abuse. Anyone downloading such material is complicit in that abuse.

For those of you saying that others on this thread have made assumptions about this man and should show some compassion seem to be making assumptions yourselves - do not assume that everyone who has been abused as a child, goes on to commit abuse as an adult. There are a myriad of reasons why victims do not come forward and speak up about it later in life and this is one of them along with the shame, confusion, anger, sadness and everything else that they quite rightly feel.

Show compassion if you must for the victims of this crime as they are the ones who have had their lives altered with far-reaching consequences. The damage done is untold and it can take years for them to come to terms with it. I have no sympathy for anyone who chooses to abuse children and that is exactly what you choose when you knowingly download shit like this.

[KidKruger]

..