Can tutors give a general assessment?

[Lmcg46]

My daughter is in year 4 and is reasonably bright (from what we're told). Her class is quite a handful and she's mentioned that she feels that, as a quiet child who gets on with her work, her teacher sometimes "forgets about me". I certainly feel that she could do more than she does but she's shy and won't ask for help and doesn't personally have a lot of drive. There are times when she comes home really engaged and enthused but I struggle to replicate that at home when I try to support her. I think she could manage more than she does but I'm not sure if I'm right. The last time I brought it up at parents evening, I didn't get a very inspiring response. (In terms of action/suport being suggested.)

I'd like to get someone to do a session or two with her (and her younger sister) to give me an independent view as to where they sit on the performance spectrum. I feel they could do more than they do and I'm happy to try and encourage them. But I don't want to get it wrong and put them off. I also would like to know where they stand before I discuss it with the school. But I don't know if tutors could/would be able to do some simple assessments or does it take time to get to know how kids are performing?

I'm not trying to hot-house my kids or be a pushy parent - I just want to try and do what I can to support my kids.

[Pugwash]

Many years ago I had a similar problem with eldest daughter who was also quiet and shy, who seemed to be losing interest in school and had started to truant. I did not get much joy from class teacher, so began to get worried as she was 9/10 years old and we had always considered her bright. I was working for ILEA at the time and asked a colleague who was PA to one of the senior psychologists I worked with to get a recommendation for a private psychologist. Arno, the senior psych asked me why I wanted an assessment - I explained the reason. He pulled rank and as a favour got me an ILEA psych who made arrangements to see my daughter after the Easter Hols. I was called in by Mrs.S the Head who demanded what right I had to question her staff's judgement that my daughter was average intelligence and was lazy and not taking part in the lessons.

To cut a long story short, I was called in to meet the psych. after the assessment as to why I had asked for advice & explained the response I received from the class teacher and head.It turned out that my daughter was very bright and her test results indicated that she was performing tasks at a 12/13 year old level and found the work being given by the form teacher to be un stimulating hence the quietness in class and the opting out. The Psych decided to do some random checks on the class's performance and other children and found a small group of around 6 children who were exceptionally bright, but that lessons were aimed at the majority who were average and below average. After that the school brought in ability grouping. Of the 6 bright kids - 3 went to private secondary school - Alleyns/St. Dunstans. Mine went to Sydenham Girls as we could not afford private fees.

I would recommend, if you can afford it, to get an educational psychologist who will give advice also how to assist your daughter

[Lmcg46]

Thanks Pugwash. While my daughter is probably too young yet for ideas of truanting to arise, a lot of your situation sounds familiar. I fully suspect that we're not the only child in the class in this situation and that is replicated across the school. I suspect that the school will be defensive, hence why I want some proof that it's more than just me thinking my darling child is obviously a genius but the school can't see it! Ideally therefore I'd be careful how experienced the tutor was.

The idea of an educational psychologist is interesting. Is that something you can access outside the system?

[bawdy-nan]

At 6 my daughter confided in me that she often rocked back and forth in lessons she found boring (esp maths where she said she was bored by the repetition). She told me she was imagining that she was rowing across a huge lake until her teacher moved on to something she hadn't already told them about. Had she been of a different tempremant she might have got a reputation for causing trouble. I tried to tactfully explain to her teacher what was going on but I also slightly envied my daughter's daydreaming journeys. She was making progress and continues to do so 6 years later where the teachers seem much more up for a challenge.

[bornagain]

My daughter went through similar a few years ago. The school was largely unsupportive but under pressure gave her a series of reading age and non-verbal assessments on her which showed that she was around 5 years ahead. I asked about educational psychologist - state schools do have access to them but was told that she was not eligible. I looked at going privately but they are very expensive.

We ended up by moving her in year 6 to another (state) primary which fitted her needs better. It was a risky thing to do as it could have backfired (she is also quiet etc at school).

She is now at a local secondary school and is doing well. I think the work they do challenge her sufficiently. Basically primaries, as they are quite small, quite often do not have the resources to deal with anything but the 'norm'. Secondaries are far more flexible (and have a considerable incentive to nurture their able cohort to improve their performance stats).

[dulwichpsychology]

You can access educational psychologists directly for a private assessment if you wanted to go down that route. Use the 'Find a psychologist' option on the BPS (British Psychological Society) website.

Here is a link to a service based in S/E London (found via BPS website) - it has some useful info.

http://www.sepsychology.co.uk/parents-and-carers

[Pugwash]

I think primary schools vary - my grand daughter (daughter of eldest daughter) is very bright and her primary school (Orpington) recognised this and others and did ability streaming from Junior school upwards. She went to secondary school and again was streamed and at 12/13 was in a group of kids doing GCSE maths syllabus. I think many schools are becoming aware early on that they may have 'gifted children' in their group. Trouble is with so many 'unruly' children in some classes, the teacher's time is diverted to this group.

[Jessie]

Perhaps the 'unruly' children are also 'gifted'.

[bawdy-nan]

Jessie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Perhaps the 'unruly' children are also 'gifted'.

quite

[Fuschia]

What were her ks1 results? The school will have progress targets for her based on those, to gve you an idea where they see her academically

[Lmcg46]

Fuschia - we never got exact KS1 results, just the normal info on where she fell in the different bands and where they thought she would be the following year if she continued on her current trajectory. I asked her teacher this year if she felt she did her best in class as we struggled at home and her answer was to refer to the 'self-assessment' of effort which was attached to each exercise in her book - which was always 'I did my best' so point proven according to the teacher. My daughter admitted when asked though that she didn't always try her best but ticked that as she thought that was what the teacher wanted to see.

I think as others have said, the primaries have a big job to do and don't have the resources to challenge the brighter students. Perhaps rightly, they focus on getting the less able or the less well supported as far as they can. I just wish I felt confident that they would assess and tell me honestly what my kids are able of and let me feel confident to support them where the school can't. But that's probably a politically impossible ask.

[bawdy-nan]

Lmcg46 Wrote:

> I think as others have said, the primaries have a

> big job to do and don't have the resources to

> challenge the brighter students. Perhaps rightly,

> they focus on getting the less able or the less

> well supported as far as they can. I just wish I

> felt confident that they would assess and tell me

> honestly what my kids are able of and let me feel

> confident to support them where the school can't.

I just don't think this is true. Certainly not my experience of the local state primary my children attend/ed where they've been challenged to push themselves, encouraged to try and experiment when they're unsure, supported when things have been tricky and had their curiosity and intellectual self-reliance developed. My eldest has just started at secondary and the benefits of the brilliant start she got at her previous school are still resonating in the way that she seems to have been equipped to manage her learning and assess how she's doing without feeling awful if its not going swimmingly.

I also don't think that children are "able" or not. In my experience they're usually good at some things and find other things more difficult. And these things ebb and flow. When you say that you "struggle" to "support" your child at home, maybe that's the key. Maybe you could try different activities that you'll both enjoy and that school can't offer in quite the same way. There are great concerts, theatre, museums etc in London you could go to with your child not to mention the parks, zoos, rivers buildings etc - let alone great stories, and poems and music you can share.

You've clearly got a passion for learning and that means your child is already going to be at an advantage but I suppose I'm suggesting that if your child is making progress at school that's great and there are other, more pleasurable, ways to share your passion. Good luck!

[Lmcg46]

Bawdy-Nan - we've done loads of concerts, museums, books, outside activities etc etc with her. Some things work better than others. But generally, as soon as she needs to make any personal effort - whether that is doing an activity, walking somewhere, reading a book etc, she just gives up and doesn't want to make the effort. I feel that she's got too used to being told that everything she does is good - she has no concept of trying to push herself beyond her boundaries, however small the steps, whether physical or mental. When I've addressed this with the teachers, they really don't come up with any strategies to deal with it. It's kind of, she's doing well so what are you worrying about.

I'm starting to try and encourage her to take pride in doing a her best, to see that there can be satisfaction in knowing you've earned the praise. But I want to be secure in how far I encourage her to go - I don't want to put her off by trying to 'encourage' her beyond the point she can go. You're right that it's not all about academic achievement.

[bawdy-nan]

Lmcg46 - you're absolutely right that there is definitely a deep pleasure to be had in gaining mastery over something that is difficult and that really stretches you and having an experience of this is a brilliant lesson and one that really lasts, I think. The things that have helped my children in this regard have been for one of them, learning an instrument which they enjoyed, found quite difficult but discovered that practice made a huge difference and for the other it was learning to swim and to ride a bicycle (both of which took much, much, much longer than is "normal"). For both of them the sense of achievement and pride after a hard slog up a "mountain" (Snowdon is doable) or a week's hardcore camping (https://www.fsc.org.uk/)have been very powerful.

[Pugwash]

My godson was a naturally bright boy and sailed through all his lessons and mock GCS's with the minimum of effort - was confident that he could get all A's in GCSEs and did not put any effort in revision. It came as a shock to him to find he could not walk through the GCSEs at A pass. He bucked his ideas up then, re sat his exams (after revising) and got his previously predicted A's.

My friend (his mother) said it was a painful lesson to him that he did not achieve his A grades at first attempt. he realised that he had to put more work in to his studies. he went onto University, did lecturing at the London College of fashion for a whole, then set up his own successful business.

Sometimes a child has to 'fail' before realising that they have the potential to do better. But 'failure' has to be handled in a very sensitive way not to make the child feel inadequate.

My almost 11 year old grandson again is bright but lazy and only puts the minimum effort into his maths. At the last parents evening the form teacher stated that unless he bucked up his idea and got the marks he was capable of, he would need to have extra tuition during his lunch breaks and that he would have to forgo his football practice a couple of times a week. Within 2 weeks, his marks increased - and have maintained - since he is football mad and plays for both the school team and a Sunday club this was one thing he was not willing to forsake. He now takes pride in getting the higher marks in Maths.

[KnowledgeSeekers]

Hello Lmcg46

Alexandra Beeley is the principal tutor at Knowledge Seekers on Grove Vale.

The tutoring company has tutored nearly a thousand children and young adults in the immediate area over the last 6 years. They offer a no commitment report for a fee. She is not an educational psychologist, qualifying in the City as a solicitor after studying Jurisprudence at Oxford. Her passion is psychology, hence why she left the City to tutor full time. Her integrity is well known, and the website has dozens and dozens of parent recommendations. She has extensive experience at the younger ages and can give you an insight into comparative performance levels.

www.knowledgeseekers.co.uk

Apologies for only just noticing your early January post.