Ched Evans situation

[Otta]

Based on what AqM?

[Loz]

indiepanda Wrote:

> and one which puts him in the position of having young kids looking up to him

Frankly, if kids are 'looking up' to that bunch of lying, cheating, unsportsmanlike, violent bunch of half-wits that comprise most of the league footballers these days, chucking one more into the mix isn't really going to muddy the pond.

[Otta]

Agreed. I don't buy in to the role model argument.

[alice]

look on the bedroom wall of any boy 7+ - they virtually worship footballers.

[Otta]

That play for premiership teams the vast majority of the time. This won't go away, and if he does well I still can't see a Premier League club touching him.

[aquarius moon]

Otta Wrote:

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> Based on what AqM?

I never said he didn't do anything wrong. I said pretty much the same as you, that he didn't think he had done anything wrong & was trying to clear his name. I read a few reports about it.

And although he was guilty, I'm still not 100%.

I wasn't there.

[Otta]

Ah okay.

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

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> That play for premiership teams the vast majority

> of the time. This won't go away, and if he does

> well I still can't see a Premier League club

> touching him.

The arrogance of a premier league fan Otta? Try telling kids in Sheffield that they don't worship United players.

[indiepanda]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > That play for premiership teams the vast

> majority

> > of the time. This won't go away, and if he does

> > well I still can't see a Premier League club

> > touching him.

>

> The arrogance of a premier league fan Otta? Try

> telling kids in Sheffield that they don't worship

> United players.

I agree. When I was growing up there my nearest football team was Southend United, and boys at school still supported them... Look, I don't think it's logical for anyone to hero worship / look to ANY footballer as a role model, but then I am forty something women can't think of anything more dull than watching a football match and don't even take an interest in the world cup, hardly a young lad fanatical about supporting my local team.

Besides, regardless of what team kids support, there's been enough media coverage that many people are aware of the case - I don't like the kind of message it gives out to them if he does get a job with Oldham. Especially if this story of the girlfriend's dad paying to replace any lost sponsorship is true... One rule for people with a lot of money behind them, another for the average person. (I can't even begin to imagine what his girlfriend sees in him. And my dad certainly wouldn't be supporting me if I was daft enough to hook myself up with someone who shows so little respect to women!)

[Loz]

Especially if this story of the girlfriend's dad paying to replace any lost sponsorship is true... One rule for people with a lot of money behind them, another for the average person.

but hang on, in your previous post you said...

make me feel it's unacceptable for him to return to what might not be a top flight football job, but still a decently paid one

So isn't what you are proposing EXACTLY one rule for people who may earn a lot of money, another for the average person?

[El Pibe]

I guess the role model thing hinges on an object subject thing.

Role model as one behaving in a manner that should be emulated, certainly not.

Role model as in those which impressionable people emulate, sadly all too true, even my 4 year old goes down like a sack of spuds, clutches his ankle and grimaces in pain for 30 seconds if anyone goes near him, despite daddy tellng him not to be ridiculous.

They have more sway than daddy!!!!

[StraferJack]

Another point when comparing to past offenders..

I think we are at a real watershed moment with regards to how women are treated - as I've already said, the whole 70s culture coming to light is having an impact but more boyfriends, husbands, brothsre and dads are seeing first hand (thanks to social media) just how many women have to face threats that they just never even consider - almost on a daily basis

I think tolerance of this treatment is evaporating and to allow Evans to carry on as if nothing had happened (even before he finishes his sentence on licence) goes against that

It should be possible for him to maintain his innocence AND show respect for the victim. It should be possible for him to work TOWARDS getting back into football, and allow rehabilitaion without his "f** you I have nothing to answer for" attitude

[LadyDeliah]

I think SJ has nailed it.

What he did is totally grim and illegal, but still seen as acceptable/excusable behaviour by many guys.

How do we change the perception held by some, that sex is something men take from women because their needs/drives are more important than a woman's right to physical autonomy?

There is a culture in football and media where women are seen as ornaments and sexual playthings. I think getting a prison sentence, but seemingly not understanding why what he did is appalling, makes his re-entry to the sexist world of football, where he will again have access to star-struck women with men of a similar mind-set, is what makes his case problematic.

[DulwichFox]

There is no place for a convicted Rapist in Sport.

Considering the amount of Women that now attend Football Matches.

(Not that it would be OK if was a total male domain)

There was a convicted rapist in an away team that came to Millwall.

He got a very bad reception from male Millwall supporters.

And if a woman is drunk then its wrong to take advantage. Which he did.

A woman being drunk actually puts Me right off.

He should not be signed. It would send the wrong message about the club and it's manager.

DulwichFox

[Loz]

Actually I think SF's argument is exactly the problem at hand, not the solution.

I'm sorry, but I am a liberal and so I cannot abide making special rules retrospectively for people just because the baying mob demands it. If we want to learn from this and put laws/codes/whatever in place for the future, then fine (in fact that is exactly what we should be doing), but responding to the chanting of the mob can never be considered justice, no matter how blindly well intentioned.

[LadyDeliah]

It's not about changing laws, it's about whether a business will continue to receive the support of the wider community or not, based on their ethical/moral position.

Happens all the time over a variety of issues. It's a reminder that businesses, in this instance a football club, are part of a wider society and rely on their goodwill and patronage to prosper, so their decisions have consequences.

I would say in this instance, this man, given his lack of rehabilitation and the facilitating culture within football, that he should not be allowed back until he gets why he can't do the kind of thing he did.

[Otta]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Try telling kids in Sheffield that they don't worship United players.

I would, but I doubt they'd understand a word I was saying.

[Otta]

I guess I just don't get the role model thing because I had no interest in football as a kid, and my daughter just likes the songs, she hasn't a clue when's playing.

[*Bob*]

I suspect a fair few people on here would have been in a situation (when young, dumb and drunk) where they have done something with someone when neither were in control to some degree or other.

This is not (as Chedders and his supporters probably believe) 'more or less the same thing' as three blokes scheming and convening at a hotel room to have a go on a comatose woman.

[Loz]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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> It's not about changing laws, it's about whether a business will continue to receive the support of

> the wider community or not, based on their ethical/moral position.

The 'wider community'? Or the baying mob? We don't know what the wider community think, we can only hear the loudest voices. Some may agree with your position, some may agree with mine, but the only way we will truly know is if Oldham sign Evans and survive as a club. The wider community will have then spoken, one way or the other.

[LadyDeliah]

There is a wider community than the football supporters and your voice is being heard, as are Evans' fans.

New age of pluralistic media. You're in luck.

[Loz]

For those who might want to get a better idea of the evidence presented and why the jury came to the conclusion it did, I found the judge's summary of the original trial and appeal.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

[LadyDeliah]

Loz Wrote:

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> For those who might want to get a better idea of

> the evidence presented and why the jury came to

> the conclusion it did, I found the judge's summary

> of the original trial and appeal.

>

> https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-che

> dwyn-evans

Grim. I bet their mothers are proud.

[JohnL]

Some reports Oldham deal is Off.

[Otta]

BBC says

"Terms with the Welsh striker, 26, have been agreed and the deal is close to being finalised despite a backlash, including a 60,000-strong petition. However, there are still legal issues to overcome which could cause a delay."