birth experiences at kings

[edresident]

Mong 17 - for what its worth I wish I'd had an elcs after a pretty awful emcs first time round. I felt the pressure to have a vbac after being repeatedly told that it was the best thing for me and my baby and so to contradict that advice immediately makes you feel you are NOT doing the best you should be doing...and so the guilt begins...

The outcome of the attempted v-bac was fairly catastrophic and resulted in me successfully taking legal action against kings for negligence and me being very very unwell. I may be accused of scaremongering but why should the bad stories not be shared along with the good?

Go with your instinct as I wish I had. I too can give a first hand account of never hearing a negative birthing story at any of the pre-natal groups or talks I attended and strangely I wasn't invited to share mine in the aftermath...!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

x

[midivydale]

Emotive subject indeed and so very personal!

I never did an nct class so am unable to comment but I did do the nhs one at ed hospital and I was with a highly regarded community midwife team.

I have written about my traumatic birth here before but one of the worst things for me was that I was totally unprepared for the birth that I had and I believe whole heartedly that had I been better informed about the vast different shapes a birth experience can take, my emotional health would not have deteriorated to the extent that it did.

I felt let down by everyone, the medical establishment, my amazing midwife, my mother and friends. Why the hell did no one prepapare me for what could have happened? To talk about breathing, pools and lavender spray without a mention of forceps, episiotomy or a failed induction is to me both cruel and negligent.

It is not scaremongering, to me it is kind. It would have meant the world to me that night, when after my b baby boy was born and all I wanted to do was run away, rewind. When I tried so hard to love him but couldnt because all i felt was complete terror for what had just happened. If I had known then, that i was normal too, that my efforts were just as strong as had I hypnobirthed my way through. If I had only been told the once that you are not a worse mum because your baby cant latch, then I bet my life that my mind would have been in a better place.

disclaimer just to add that i never did nct so not having a dig at them. And I am most def not having a rant at sillywoman who has been a lovely source of information and comfort during my many rants on here. I wish I had done nct with you sw!!

[sillywoman]

Thankyou Mong17,

Your original post sounded as though you were connecting the chances of having a caesarean with attendance at NCT classes - obviously something I would need to challenge as there is no evidence for this. You have clarified for me, and for anyone else reading this thread that it wasn't your intention to state that so that's good - Thankyou.

To answer your query in return. Yes, all NCT teaching is evidence based. There is a lot of confusion about what's taught as NCT signature teachers are not given a course format to follow, rather we are trained to teach responsively so that we can teach whatever the course attendants want/need us to - so the course you had will be different from the course I cover, which will be different from the course Saffron had etc.etc. Anything we teach though must be evidence based (up -to date evidence too, ideally not something from more than 10 years ago) and you can always ask your teacher to back up anything she tells you. It's very sad that you didn't feel you got what you needed from your course. In defence of your teacher (though I don't know who it was), and all antenatal teachers, I would say we have a limited amount of time in which to cover the entire range of situations, and people you might encounter in labour and birth, and of course all the post birth essentials too. Something of an impossible task, but we do try!

I won't put more, as I feel that I'm highjacking the thread about birth experiences at Kings. I will say that I had all four of mine with KCH midwives, and have had a mixed bag of care, with some amazing community midwives; one utterly awful birth experience; and some 'meh' midwives. On the whole I think KCH is fab, with many, many dedicated, women-centred midwives and doctors (Dr Penna being something of a star). We are very very lucky indeed to live so close and have it as our local hospital for care throughout our births - however our babies come out.

And thank you for that lovely comment midivydale :)

SWx

[simonethebeaver]

We had the lovely sillywoman as our NCT teacher, and she certainly did many of the things you talk about, Ivydale (and I'm sorry you and others had such traumatic births). She waved forceps at us, we played out a C section (no one had to actually operate) and discussed the different reasons for sections, and in fact she told us that it was highly likely at least one of us would have one. We discussed induction, pain relief, we had one session which was dedicated entirely to discussing our fears about the birth and afterwards.

I get the impression that the weakness of NCT is the variability of the teachers. If you get a good one, I think they can do a really excellent job of preparing and supporting you.

[midivydale]

Agree wholeheartedly simonthebeaver and the "waiving of forceps" made me giggle. That truly is what I would have liked!

[Kes]

Hi Mong17, it's 2 years ago now but I had an elective CS at Kings after a hideous experience else where first time. It was honestly wonderful and everyone was lovely. Goo luck!

On NCT I think it is very variable. My own experience was 5 years ago now (in another area) and dreadful. We were taught everyone can and should have a natural (preferably home) birth and almost all interventions are unnecessary and hideous and only happen if you give in to fear or evil doctors. When we went back for our meet up and I had to confess to an emergency C section the teacher asked to look at my hands, raised her eyebrows, said she didn't think the c section was necessary and walked away.

I think things are improving but I still have my frustrations with them. Until very recently (when I complained about it) The NCT website said that medical inductions would inevitably lead to a cascade of interventions and the complete medicalisation of the birth. It went on to list a variety of un/dis-proven alternative medicine ways to start labour. The site also had very little info on c sections and almost all of it negative and how to avoid/ refuse them. Some friends only a few months ago were also (without asking for it) given a list of alternative remedies for various labour/birth issues by their NCT teacher at their first class.

As I say I think things are improving and the NCT are making much more of an effort to be evidence based but a few individuals are still passing off their personal beliefs as fact and woe betide anyone who says anything negative about them on social media! Those opinions are immediately dismissed and met with a barrage of defensiveness.

sorry, pet rant! Wish I had had Sillywoman!

K

[MarianaTrench]

I remember sitting at my NCT breastfeeding class, having already given birth (prematurely), and she laid out all these lovely fuzzy warm photos of women breastfeeding their babies. There was one photo of a lady holding her baby after a CS, all the other ones were of happy, composed and serene looking women feeding their babies. Everyone had to pick one photo that appealed to them and say why it appealed. I of course was the only one who picked the CS photo, not because it appealed, but because I wanted to gently highlight that it might happen to them too. I remember thinking 'you guys have NO CLUE what you're in for!' And, to be totally honest, maybe it's better that way, I don't know.

Did anyone after a disastrous first birth to go to a different hospital? I am definitely contemplating it, just because I am not sure I can deal with the memories it will trigger.

[mong17]

Yes my disaster was at St Thomas's not kings but tbh and I don't think it was the hospitals fault. Its the policy of not letting women in until the contractions are 3 mins apart. That is torture. I waited for 2 days and nights in agony and finally when they let me in I was nearly fully dilated but by then too exhausted to push. All the interventions followed on. I think this policy is common to all London hospitals but not outside London.

[sillywoman]

It's policy everywhere, but occasionally if a ward is quiet then a kindly midwife might let you hang around until the contraptions are close enough for your to be considered to be in labour. Quiet wards are more likely to happen outside of London. Here they are something of a rareity!

[sillywoman]

Kes, what was the deal with your hands - did you ever find out? And more importantly did you complain, there is no way on this earth she could have told anything about your birth experience and what was or wasn't needed by looking at your hands.

Incidentally my heart is breaking that you felt your had to 'confess' to your EMCS. You should be proud of yourself however your baby got here. Mums will always do whatever they can, to get their babies here however they can. Unfortunately nature and circumstance can be a cow, and some Mums aren't lucky enough to get to take their baby home. We should all be that bit kinder to each other, and however our babies arrive, no 'confessions' should be needed.

Regarding ELCS: The only person who can know if that's the right thing for any particular Mum and baby, is the Mum herself. ELCS is not risk free for either party, but any kind of birth carries risks with it; vagina or out the 'sun-roof'. My opinion is, as long as the woman has weighed the risks to herself and baby in the balance when making her decision then, it's no-one's business but hers how she choses to birth her baby. And Kings is great :D

[Jessicas429]

My experience in July 2014 with a second child, was an emcs rather than elective but cannot fault the medical care I received- I remember looking at the clock and it was just gone 10am, my daughter was born at 10.12 and I had a general anaesthetic beforehand.

To be honest, I found the ante-natal midwife care not so great. I was considered 'low-risk' for the duration of the pregnancy and at times almost felt like a bit of an inconvenience when I raised concerns or issues I had and felt like they were downplayed. I should mention that although I was under the Kings midwives, all my appointments were held at clinics outside the hospital.

I still have some issues with the birth which I'd like to address with someone appropriate at the hospital at some point when I'm ready. However, as mentioned I cannot fault the medical care I recevied especially as it was a weekend and the hospital felt empty. The team of doctors treating me me were completely on the ball, compassionate and gave me complete confidence.

[Kes]

SillyWoman - As far as I have been able to figure out, there is some old wives tale that the size of your hands predicts the size of your pelvis, so the NCT teacher judged that my (9lb 10oz back to back) baby couldn't really have been stuck as my hands aren't small!

Sadly I didn't complain as at the time I just didn't have it in me and didn't think I would be listened to anyway. The teacher was very senior in the organisation and adamant that everything she said was evidence based and for a long time I really wondered if she was right and I was somehow to blame for what had happened. For a long time it did feel like a c section was something to confess to and make excuses for - but I did yoga and hypnobirthing so it wasn't my fault!! -

Anyway, as I say that was all 5 years ago and I think I now accept that I just got unlucky in not having the birth I wanted and I'm incredibly thankful that I live in a time and place where modern medicine had my back when I needed it. Also going on to choose an elective for my second, being so well looked after by Kings and being able to feel calm, prepared and in control for that birth was a very healing experience.

K

[sillywoman]

Kes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> SillyWoman - As far as I have been able to figure

> out, there is some old wives tale that the size of

> your hands predicts the size of your pelvis, so

> the NCT teacher judged that my (9lb 10oz back to

> back) baby couldn't really have been stuck as my

> hands aren't small!

>

> Ouch. 9lb 10oz back to back - that is a TOUGH labour-especially for a first.

> Anyway, as I say that was all 5 years ago and I

> think I now accept that I just got unlucky in not

> having the birth I wanted and I'm incredibly

> thankful that I live in a time and place where

> modern medicine had my back when I needed it. Also

> going on to choose an elective for my second,

> being so well looked after by Kings and being able

> to feel calm, prepared and in control for that

> birth was a very healing experience.

I often wish that this forum had a 'like' button: This is one of those times.

SWx

[AnyaJoeli]

Kes I can totally relate...my mother in law and one of her good friends are old-school nct teachers from 20 years ago and I had a fair few comments from her after my first birth experience where she said things like the fact that I had an epidural caused me to have a section...er, no I had induced labour and warriored on through it for 2 days before pleading for an epidural, and the section was a crash section not a failure to progress lack of belief in mother nature section. My son wouldn't be alive had the section not happened, and I had obviously had placenta issues which meant that although overdue he hadn't been growing for a few weeks and induction definitely saved his life. So while I wholeheartedly believe in natural birth and how empowering and amazing natural birth and homebirth is having seen so many positive experiences, I have also experienced the nct/natural is the only way "bullying" side where if you don't do it naturally you're just not trying hard enough or being bullied by risk-averse consultants (I was told that this time round).

A couple of years ago I suffered a haemorrhage a few weeks after a miscarriage where I obviously had retained "products", unhappily while we were on holiday in Sri lanka. I had to go to a public hospital there and the experience was so traumatic and terrifying (hygiene, crowding, available technology) that I vowed never to take our nhs and hospitals for granted ever again. The whole time I was in the hospital in Sri lanka I was promising myself never to complain about Kings ever ever. An extreme example definitely, but a bit of perspective. We are very lucky to have such a great teaching hospital next door.

That aside, even without comparing to a run down hospital in Sri Lanka where street dogs wander the outside corridors, my experience at Kings this time was nothing but positive and although a part of me will always grieve the natural birth I had striven for first time round, I feel so much more human and positive and relaxed with a week old baby now, I don't think I felt this normal until my firstborn was about 18 months old. I was a shadow of my former self for well over a year, physically and emotionally depleted. I can definitely say that in the same way that a complication-free vbac would have been an emancipation from that past experience, my elective was empowering and healing.

Sorry this is quite rambling. Newborn brain...

[moglees]

I was supported flawlessly by the Lanes Midwives through my pregnancy and then had an elective two weeks ago at Kings (breech baby and epilepsy). Everything was absolutely impeccable (bar someone forgetting to refer us for our baby's tongue tie) and I genuinely can't recommend all the obstetricians, midwives, nurses, health care workers, paediatricians etc enough. I am well on my way to recovery and have a beautiful contented little boy!