Head Teacher appointed for The Charter School East Dulwich

[James Barber]

Ditto albert. We all need to move on and get 100% behind Charter to deliver what we all want - an outstanding new school.

[colabottle]

Come on James, get behind your East Dulwich constituents. I'm sure most people would be 100% behind Charter if they felt that Charter were including them and genuinely offering a school for East Dulwich. The people who are now concerned that their children won't get into the new Charter school are the same people who responded to your initial call to action in 2013. Don't abandon them now.

[kristymac1]

colabottle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Come on James, get behind your East Dulwich

> constituents. I'm sure most people would be 100%

> behind Charter if they felt that Charter were

> including them and genuinely offering a school for

> East Dulwich. The people who are now concerned

> that their children won't get into the new Charter

> school are the same people who responded to your

> initial call to action in 2013. Don't abandon them

> now.

Absolutely! You cannot expect people to support a school which may offer them nothing. Simon from the Charter bid has been very helpful and forthcoming with answers to lots of questions, but it's clear that the admissions policy is of huge concern to lots of East Dulwich residents and rightly so. All folk want is to know whether this is a school for them or not, if it isn't then you can't expect them to 'get behind it 100%', I'm guessing all those actively supporting it are doing so because they believe they will directly benefit....

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I'm not sure I understand ... I'm assuming all the parents on here are DULWICH parents ? Their kids are in Dulwich schools ? Therefore they are in catchment of Charter?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

The new Charter that is since it'll be based 'in' Dulwich.

[redjam]

I don't understand the hostility either. Simon's post earlier explained their current thinking re. catchment and it seemed pretty clear and reasonable to me - certainly looks like most SE22 families would be within the catchment area using the Melbourne Grove side as the nodal point. As someone mentioned earlier, they're not going to be able to please everyone but clearly most people benefiting from that catchment policy would be from East Dulwich, and the 'as the crow flies' policy makes sense to me as the site is within SE22.

I also don't understand the conspiracy allegation from confusedbyitall. Whether or not you prefer Habs or Charter personally, no one can argue that Charter aren't an excellent provider with a great track record and I can see nothing that makes me think they behaved in a dodgy way in the bidding process. To those who allege they were canvassing signatures from people who were already in the Charter 1 catchment area, I can state that they were actively canvassing at my kids' school (Heber), where most of us live well outside that catchment.

I just keep coming back to the fact that this is really good news for the area as a whole. We should be pleased, right?

[MsMaz]

You think they can welcome all the children in the East Dulwich (and this goes to Peckham Rye Park and beyond and south to Barry Road btw and back to Bellenden/Dog Kennel Hill? That's a lot of schools and children, too many I expect. Maybe the first year or two but as the school gains credibility, and more households in Charter 1 catchment opt for Charter 2, the catchment will get smaller year-on-year I reckon.

I think Charter need to think very carefully on how the catchment of the 2 schools would work. If they did what Habs suggested - move the main admissions point east-ish a bit so no overlap - then the original Charter 1 catchment would remain the same.

And, yes agree with Colabottle and KirstyMac that there are many of us who felt let down when we'd supported Habs, then also offered our support for Charter, only to find out later it was going to be crow-flies and unlikely to get in. How can we get 100% behind that?

[colabottle]

I don't think it is as simple as that, Dulwichborn&bred, if only, and that's the point. You would expect an East Dulwich school to provide places to children within the entire spread of East Dulwich. Haberdasher's idea of one or more nodal points within East Dulwich would have helped to ensure that this happened. The fact that Charter are planning to use a nodal point from the site of the hospital, on the very border of East Dulwich, means that it is likely those children living towards the opposite ends of East Dulwich may well lose out on a place - increasingly so, as time moves on and the demand well outstrips places (2019 being the peak of the projected shortage).

Does anyone know how many forms of entry is planned, and whether families with children at Charter 1 will be able to apply for sibling places at Charter 2 (presumably not, as they are two separate schools)?

[redjam]

I think to be fair Charter always said their admissions policy was likely to be done on straightforward distance criteria (I attended one of their meetings about it and I seem to remember this was stated) - though in Simon's post earlier he did say there will be a consultation on this. So again I don't think anyone can claim that anything underhand has occurred.

As for moving the nodal point to the east, I'm just not sure how much real difference it would make. If you look at a map it's much less densely populated to the north and west - the bulk of the housing lies to the east anyway so that's where most of the kids will come from. I guess you could argue that that's even more of a reason to stick a nodal point there (I wouldn't argue with that - it would benefit me!) but I stand by my statement that I'd have thought the majority of ED kids would be within the catchment even if they leave the central point at Melbourne Grove. Or at least, I haven't seen any evidence that they WOULDN'T be, even if the catchment was only 1km in diameter, i.e. as small as Charter 1's. So I still don't really understand why everyone is getting so upset, sorry.

[MsMaz]

I live in East Dulwich, SE22 and my child would definitely not get in if the catchment is 1km.

[newboots]

The hospital site is so close to the Charter school! And the new school is being built there because there is no other suitable site in SE22 (so we were informed at the start of this process). So there are still parts of East Dulwich which will not be served by this new co-ed school. The words fiasco and shambles come to mind.

[redjam]

But we don't know yet how big the catchment area will be, do we? It will fluctuate each year according to demand, and it won't be an exact circle as the housing is more concentrated to the east of the site. So I don't know how people can say unequivocally that their child will or won't get in yet.

The point is that any admissions system will have winners and losers if the school is over-subscribed. If they have a banding system they might end up with the problem that Sydenham Girls and FH Boys have had this year where their A1 band was almost four times more over-subscribed than their level 3 band, meaning those children had much lower odds of getting in. If they use a nodal point system then they'll get complaints in a couple of years' time from people who live ten minutes' walk away and didn't get in, whereas someone who lives 15 minutes away on the other side did get in. No system is perfect. By all means let's have a measured discussion of the fairest system and respond to Charter's consultation when we get to that point. But to cry 'fiasco' and 'shambles' just 24 hours after the announcement has been made sounds hysterical to me.

[toffeese15]

Basically, people are selfish. They will support the school if they think their children will get in but use terms like 'shambles' and 'fiasco' if it looks like they won't. The council can't just magic up land for a new school - they have to work with what they have, which in this case is the Dulwich hospital site. Its proximity to the existing Charter school will surely extend the catchment areas of both schools, thus increasing the chances of people further afield getting into either.

I'm in Lyndhurst Grove and therefore close to the outer edge of any potential catchment area. My daughter may get in or she may not, but if she doesn't I'm certainly not going to come on here moaning about it. One thing a new school did not and could not guarantee was a place for my daughter. If she doesn't get in, we will have to look at alternatives.

[James Barber]

My understanding is current Charter1 admissions radius is 1->1.3km spread of a full circle.

A new Charter East Dulwich will see East Dulwich children going to the new ED Charter which will extend the Charter 1 admissions radius mostly benefiting those to the NW, W, SW of Charter1. Charter ED probably wont have many applications to the NW where residents would be closer to Charter 1 so Charter ED is likely to have a more extended admissinos radius mostly benefiting those to the NE, E, SE. Effectively both schools together are likely to have admissions footprint combined in the shape of an oblong.

I will be seeking that if it is straight crow fly distance that it's measured from the front entrance on East Dulwich Grove. That would place it closest to East Dulwich.

Like it or not nodal points wasn't in the Charter bid so I wouldnt anticipate them consulting about nodal points. But thar dosn't stop people responding about them.

Admissions consultating is a requisite of the free school process. It isn't optional. Several other consutlaiton will have to take place as well on the site. If it will have sufficient demand, etc. So still quie a journey for everyone.

[savage]

Hi

Regardless of admission policy, we need to get this school built asap. Have the next steps been documented & do we have any timelines in place yet?

[littlek1cker]

For anyone interested and who missed it, here is a link to our press release in response to the good news:

http://www.charter.southwark.sch.uk/news/?pid=3&nid=6&storyid=168

And now the real work to get the school open begins! In terms of immediate next steps we are waiting to meet with DfE and EFA officials to get feedback on our bid, be briefed in detail on the requirements of the pre-opening phase and the situation with the site. We'll be able to set out some timelines after that, but one date we don't intend to move is the first day of term for the first students in September 2016.

[newboots]

Just to clarify, I do not have children who will go to this school, so my opinion is not based on how it will affect my family.

Yes, of course a new co-ed secondary is to be welcomed in East Dulwich. But I see my misgivings about the admissions criteria are shared by others on the thread. Are they supposed to just shut up and put up?

[Sunlover00]

newboots Wrote:

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> Just to clarify, I do not have children who will

> go to this school, so my opinion is not based on

> how it will affect my family.

>

> Yes, of course a new co-ed secondary is to be

> welcomed in East Dulwich. But I see my misgivings

> about the admissions criteria are shared by others

> on the thread. Are they supposed to just shut up

> and put up?

There are shortcomings with any system or criteria. It's already been stated if i recall correctly that charter will consult re admissions at a later date so I presume there will be a proper forum to raise concerns etc. What else would you like see happen now barely a week since the decision?

[Sol]

Great news! Congratulations Charter. We are in desperate need of a new secondary school in East Dulwich. Looking forward to seeing plans of the new school when ready. Hope it has good facilities and high academic standards.

[Soulking]

Yes, great news. I am very happy that we will get a new school in East Dulwich. Regardless of the exact details of the admissions criteria, it will relieve the pressure for many and give choices to more people.

My view is that as the crow flies from the school site is the best option - the others I have seen seem to complicate matters or introduce a greater element of uncertainty for applicants. As a parent my priority is to know where I stand so that I can plan accordingly.

I live in the eastern part of East Dulwich (and with primary school age children) so therefore I am significantly out of range of Charter 1 and possibly charter 2 as well if it ends up having a similar catchment area so "as the crow flies" will not benefit me. I just think that its better for the school to represent the community its physically in - regardless of the post code. I don't see why someone who lives on the far side of SE22 should get preference to someone who lives closer in southern Camberwell? Imagine a family in ten years time moving to Champion Hill, when the dust has settled on this debate all the people who were behind the the bid have moved on, what would they think if they couldn't get access to a school a few hundred yards away?

[newboots]

It really isn't vital for secondary school aged children to live right on the doorstep of their school. Or, if it is, how come so many ED families have no choice but to send their children to school outside of the borough? So its important for some children and not others? And why is the Kingsdale lottery still so popular? Children travel from all over London to get there.

It really is hard to argue the case for two secondary schools so close to each other having more or less the same catchment area, especially as the school is only being built where it is because there was no other suitable site available.

[redjam]

There will be some lucky children who live between the two schools who will have a choice of either of them, yes. But they can still only take up one space in one of the schools. So overall the catchment area (of both schools) will be bigger. To moan that they have 'the same catchment area' is kind of missing the point.

I think most people would prefer to send their child to a good local school in an ideal world so the distance rule also seems sensible to me. Kingsdale has indeed flourished with a lottery system but I wouldn't say the lottery process itself is particularly popular with parents - it's horrible feeling that your child's future rests on whether their name is pulled out of a hat or not. Of course people can continue to put it down as an option if they want to but I for one am thrilled that there are going to be 180 new school places that will go to local children, many of whom are currently in a secondary school black hole. And of course it'll take the pressure off the heavily oversubscribed Kingsdale thus increasing the chance of people (local and otherwise) getting in there too. So good news all round, surely?

Edited to add I completely agree with Soulking's post!

[Gubodge]

I'm with Redjam and Soulking. Even if Charter 1 and the new school's catchments overlapped completely, it would still mean a doubling of size in the catchment, would still offer more choice to a significant number of ED families, and would still take the pressure off other local schools.

As a Goodrich parent, Habs, with it's proposed easterly nodal points, would have suited me better. But I'm not so blinkered as to think that by virtue of an SE22 postcode, my children are more deserving of a place at a local school than a child living in Camberwell.

[Belle]

It's not about who is seen to be 'deserving' or some kind if ED snobbery: it was the fact that the campaigns were both based on specific demand, the Habs heat map showed that this demand is heavily on the East side. The site location is arbitrary - it's the only viable one, and in fact free school applications are not based on site at all. I agree it's a positive thing per se, not trying to detract from that, but want to clarify the position of those concerned about catchment.

[MsMaz]

Gubodge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm with Redjam and Soulking. Even if Charter 1

> and the new school's catchments overlapped

> completely, it would still mean a doubling of size

> in the catchment, would still offer more choice to

> a significant number of ED families, and would

> still take the pressure off other local schools.

>

> As a Goodrich parent, Habs, with it's proposed

> easterly nodal points, would have suited me

> better. But I'm not so blinkered as to think that

> by virtue of an SE22 postcode, my children are

> more deserving of a place at a local school than a

> child living in Camberwell.

It's not being more deserving of a postcode, it's also that we were actively marketed at by both campaigns, Charter leafleting us at our house saying it would benefit us to support the bid. I even contacted them to say I thought we'd be out of catchment so no point but was still encouraged to put my name down. Of course, we're not more deserving, I just think it was never clear who Charter was targeting, whereas Habs did have its heat map and were planning to respond to it in some way to give those who supported more chance of getting in, at least in the first few years of that initial demand. Maybe Charter should have been a bit more sensitive to who they were marketing. Charter 1 catchment will extend westwards from the overlap and not benefit east dulwich/south camberwell, which I thought was the point of the campaign.