number 37 bus

[Huggers]

I searched for an existing thread on this but couldn't find one, so apologies if there is.

what is happening to the number 37 bus?

this evening train from St Pancras was diverted to Herne hill due to fire at Denmark Hill. The desperately crowded 37 bus was like the last copter out of Nam, taking no more passengers, so started to walk and nearly made it all the way back to E.D., including longish waits at each stop, before another one came past me over half an hour later. Last week waited 35 mins.

Wouldn't it be brilliant if we had a truly coordinated transport system where a broken down train could be met by some empty buses. It probably happens in Switzerland.

[curlylocks]

Roadworks on Clapham Park Road due to gas works seem to be resulting in massive diversion (via Clapham South and Kings Ave) and general chaos on this route. Due to last until 13th Jan. Boo tfl/gas company!

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/bus/status/?input=37&lineIds=37&direction=outbound

[KrackersMaracas]

I frequently walk from herne hill back to lordship lane and on numerous occasions not a single 37 has passed me. It's only been a problem in the past few months, but I'd advise getting an app like bus London on your smartphone. That said I will ignore any waiting times of 5 mins or more as they tend to be inaccurate. Hoping the gas works will finish when planned!!!

[bloonoo]

one time last year I waited an hour for the 37 bus at Goose Green, before 3 came along at once. Then the one I got on terminated in Wandsworth. The times of the bus on citymapper/the bus stops also tend to be incorrect and the 37 turns up when it pleases.

[mrure26]

It's got to do with diversion as mentioned above. Been going on for a while. 484 at the moment is not much better.

[BrandNewGuy]

Call me thick, but why do diversions matter (apart from the effect on length of journey) if the bus frequency is unaltered? It's rather like the reason why no-one looks at the Tube timetable during the day ? I don't care if every train is 40 minutes late as long as they're every five minutes.

[Huggers]

Also, if there are traffic inducing diversions, why not decrease intervals between buses leaving the original depot. ?

[whirly]

The 37 bus route/timetable has always been like this - I remember regularly waiting half an hour at North Dulwich only for 3 to come along at once 27+ years ago!

[buggie]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Call me thick, but why do diversions matter (apart

> from the effect on length of journey) if the bus

> frequency is unaltered? It's rather like the

> reason why no-one looks at the Tube timetable

> during the day ? I don't care if every train is 40

> minutes late as long as they're every five

> minutes.

Because it's not just the buses on this diversion - the whole road is closed so all traffic normally using Clapham Park Rd as well as the traffic the diversion route normally carries is trying to use the same road, thus ++ congestion & everything going slower...Clearer now?

[BrandNewGuy]

Not really. If six buses an hour take two hours to complete the route rather than one hour, they still pass your stop about every ten minutes, right? So waiting 35 minutes is a frequency problem not a congestion one.

[Sue]

Assuming the congestion is there throughout all the time the 37 is running, and not just at certain times of day, there would be a delay to the advertised times of the first buses in the morning to stops in and after the area of congestion.

And presumably the last buses at night would run "later" than the advertised times to stops in and after the area of congestion.

However once the first bus of the day has arrived at "your" stop, as BNG says, the actual frequency should not be affected because they will all be held up by about the same amount of time, so they will still appear at "your" stop at the same intervals as if there was no congestion.

It's just that each individual bus is "later" than its advertised time of arrival at "your" stop. But the time you have to wait for a bus should not be affected.

[Curmudgeon]

That's why I have to drive to work - appalling service

[nunhead_man]

I know I should get out more but ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_bunching

in particular .........

"Merely adding more vehicles to the schedule without making other changes has been proven not to be a reliable solution to the problem of bunching"

[Andrew1011]

whirly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The 37 bus route/timetable has always been like

> this - I remember regularly waiting half an hour

> at North Dulwich only for 3 to come along at once

> 27+ years ago!

Same here but from Herne Hill. It's always been a bad service. I used to travel home from Kentish Town and the problem was always the 37 bus and the ridiculously long waits.

[MarkE]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not really. If six buses an hour take two hours to

> complete the route rather than one hour, they

> still pass your stop about every ten minutes,

> right?

That only works if you double the number of buses servicing that route. Otherwise you'll have an hour-long gap between 60-minute spells of regular buses.

So if it is taking twice as long, you'll need twice as many buses to maintain the old frequency. Which, one suspects, isn't happening.

[Sue]

MarkE Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Not really. If six buses an hour take two hours

> to

> > complete the route rather than one hour, they

> > still pass your stop about every ten minutes,

> > right?

>

> That only works if you double the number of buses

> servicing that route. Otherwise you'll have an

> hour-long gap between 60-minute spells of regular

> buses.

>

> So if it is taking twice as long, you'll need

> twice as many buses to maintain the old frequency.

> Which, one suspects, isn't happening.

Why will you have an hour long gap at any point, assuming the buses are all starting out at regular intervals?

Is there some crucial thing I've missed (quite likely, probably in the wiki link above which I haven't read yet)?

[Lowlander]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MarkE Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Not really. If six buses an hour take two

> hours

> > to

> > > complete the route rather than one hour, they

> > > still pass your stop about every ten minutes,

> > > right?

> >

>

>

> > That only works if you double the number of

> buses

> > servicing that route. Otherwise you'll have an

> > hour-long gap between 60-minute spells of

> regular

> > buses.

> >

> > So if it is taking twice as long, you'll need

> > twice as many buses to maintain the old

> frequency.

> > Which, one suspects, isn't happening.

>

>

>

> Why will you have an hour long gap at any point,

> assuming the buses are all starting out at regular

> intervals?

>

> Is there some crucial thing I've missed (quite

> likely, probably in the wiki link above which I

> haven't read yet)?

Because it's actually bloody hard to run a bus schedule in London traffic - here's a scientific view on why you wait ages for a bus then three come along at once http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18074-why-three-buses-come-at-once-and-how-to-avoid-it.html

[BrandNewGuy]

Bunching is not the issue ? it might result in staggered gaps, but not in the total number of buses making the journey. I';m with you, Sue. Taking longer to make the journey does not directly affect frequency. As I mentioned, that's why no-one looks at a tube timetable (apart from first and last). If trains are every five minutes, it doesn't matter if they're all twenty minutes late ? you just jump on the next one.

[Jakido]

I'm with MarkE - if the journey takes twice as long, you need twice the number of buses to stay on timetable. For example:

Journey A to B, & back again - Normal traffic

Bus 1 leaves A at 10am, arrives B at 11am, Leaves B at 11.10am arrives A at 12:10pm

Bus 2 leaves A at 10.10am, arrives B at 11.10am, Leaves B at 11.20am arrives A at 12:20pm

However, if roadworks double the time the route takes from 1 to 2 hours, even it buses leave A on time, they come back much later, as follows:

Bus 1 leaves A at 10am, arrives B at 12noon, Leaves B at 12.10pm arrives A at 14:10pm

Bus 1 leaves A at 10.10am, arrives B at 12.10pm, Leaves B at 12.20pm arrives A at 14:20pm

[Sue]

But the intervals between the buses are still the same, even if the journey takes longer overall.

ETA: I'm not looking at this thread again until I have done all the things I'm supposed to be doing today :))

[Jakido]

They do leave at the same gap, you just need twice as many buses to keep that gap going, because every bus will takes twice as long to do the journey. So first thing in the morning you'd be Ok probably, but once everything takes twice as long they can't set off on time.

[Jakido]

Me too!!

[MissKing]

Get city mapper app on your phone, tells you when the next bus will be along. Can't make the bus come any faster unfortunately, but at least you'll know what kind of wait you are looking at!

[BrandNewGuy]

TFL's 'coundown' is OK, but a number of buses have dodgy transponders and can appear as 'ghost buses' when you don't expect them.

http://countdown.tfl.gov.uk/#/

[Sam Toucan]

>

>

> Why will you have an hour long gap at any point,

> assuming the buses are all starting out at regular

> intervals?

>

> Is there some crucial thing I've missed (quite

> likely, probably in the wiki link above which I

> haven't read yet)?

The crucial thing being missed is that when a bus reaches the end of the route it turns around and comes back again. So if it takes twice as long to complete the route you need twice as many buses to ensure the buses start out at regular intervals.