Jade Goody

[Bellenden Belle]

I'm not a Jade Goody fan by any stretch of the imagination and I agree that there is something mawkish about the public's insatiable appetite for Jade stories - even in death.

But I think Ratty summed my feelings up pretty well - deaths of public figures do make us stop and pause and think about our own lives. We talk about death being a private matter, one that takes place behind doors, midst families - but actually isn't that a reflection on our culture? And actually not necessarily such a positive attribute as we might like to believe. Grieving can be a very lonely thing - after the frantic organising of a funeral, the relatives leave and we are expected to return to our lives....and yet I don't think it has always been so. My mother talked about how the whole community would turn out for funerals in Ireland - and that sense of public recognition I think helped people tremendously in feeling their loved one's life was acknowledged and their significance recognised.

So perhaps when people clutch onto the deaths of public figures - the Princess Di's, the Jade Goody's - it is actually tapping into a need to see each individual's life as of importance - and offers us old fashioned catharsis - where we see our own greatest fears re-enacted, but feel huge relief at the final outcome where people's lives are acknowledged and finally, their dignity restored.

[SeanMacGabhann]

fine sentiments BB - but to what end? Does such reflection make us a more compassionate society? I don't think it does

[Huggers]

We don't aknowledge death in the same way that the Victorians did with their cult of death and extremely ritualised funerals and public monuments, nor engage with it on a cultural level through poetry and art in the same way that previous generations have done.

In many ways television is now the conduit for these things. When someone in the public eye dies or is at the point of death or is terminally ill many people will engage with their public persona, 'feel grief', contemplate mortality; it's what we do instead.

As for the cult of celebrity being a new thing, that isnt either.

One thing about Jade Goody is that having redeemed herself to some extent from her dysfunctional family, she didnt stick it all up her nose or fall out of nightclubs in her bra and pants every night as many who have 'deserved'their celebrity have done.

She forgave her horrible mother and didnt seek revenge.

She had a ****ed up childhood which she didnt revisit on her own children

Lots and lots of people wouldnt manage that- whatever their 'class'.

woops, BB cross posted with same thoughts.

And yes Sean, I think it does make us more compassionate because for a moment we put ourselves in someone else's shoes which is the basis for compassion-empathy.. Except the people on facebook who indulged their kitten-microwaving sentiments.

[Bellenden Belle]

I don't think it does necessarily make us more compassionate Sean.... I think instead it taps into a primeval need we all feel to face our greatest fears and to see an outcome that while sad is bearable. Seriously. The Greeks had theatre, we have reality tv.... what I'm trying to explain are the triggers that create these outpourings of irrational grief. We simply every so often need something to hang our emotions on - and if that happens to be Jade Goody, we'll take it, since there are now so few opportunities in life to actually feel and experience anything.

There are parallels with the extreme and some would say irrational emotions people experience over sport and the fate of their particular teams.

Doesn't make us more compassionate... in fact it is quite a selfish act .... but I can see how it happens.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Hmm - all I remember is being half-frightened to death at the time Diana died, and how any form of criticism at all was met by... as you say.. an almost primeaval anger to "shut the F*** up/how dare I say anything against her" etc

Seriously the country was just weird. And I'm not keen for the country to go there again. If if it is a natural outpouring of whatever - it's spooky

[matthew123]

I dare say if they had a poll today for Greatest ever Britain Jade Goody would be somewhere in the top 100.. but would Diana still be at number 2 like last time BBC did such a poll?..

Either way, it's very sad when this happens, even if I'm not a fan of trash TV

[Keef]

Great clip!

[mockney piers]

I have to say I find the Irish cult of death a bit unsettling. It seems less prevalent among the younger generation, but the older generation have a weird obsession with it.

A combination of old victorian values and catholic sensibilities, I guess, that makes for something I find quite unsettling. Those weird 'thoughtful' moments on the telly coupled with those death knells, and the death hour on the radio as the radio presenter cheerfully (yet respectfully) lists of this week's dead like the saturday evening football results.

It's not wrong, it's just, well, different, and as an outsider I've never really got my head round it. Is the 'outpouring' (well, hardly) of grief for Jade a sign of our desire to embrace death more? I dunno, I think it's more to do with the cult of Hello and people's need to feel involved in public events.

Hence the goulish tourism at Soham, the cringeworthy Dianan grief or Letchworth Garden City Corporation posting leaflets in september 2001 requesting people not to have private firework displays lest neighbours think they were under terrorist attack.

All a bit tragic in a totally different meaning of the word.

[bignumber5]

I don't tend towards public grief responses to the death of strangers, but a 27 year old mother of 2 died on mother's day at the end of an extremely unpleasant, and probably painful, illness. You don't have to be emotionally invested in the Heat magazine celeb circus to objectively find that sad.

As for the very public portrayal of Jade's illness and demise in the spotlight, she had a last chance to make a few quid for her kids. I think most people, and almost certainly most parents, can understand such a parting gesture. I've no idea who's reading it, and it doesn't really matter whether or not anyone is.

For those who are invested, art imitating life has a proud history, outlined above by others, based around people wanting to experience emotion and the more tangiable the trigger, the more genuine the sensation feels. Reality TV and crap celeb culture are simply an extension of that, verging on life imitating art imitating life. Not my cup of tea, but we're all different. BB's point about sports teams is a very astute one - it's about experiencing emotion, and what does that for the individual. But the emotions are no more or less genuine for the wider opinion of the trigger. I have no doubt that there are some people out there who feel genuine grief for a woman that they never met. I don't really get it and I certainly don't share it in the subjective sense, but I don't have to: it's their grief.

[snorky]

Anyone dying early is sad, anyone dyting and leaving kids is sad

Its interesting that Ms Goodys life - for theose who did not know her personally "began" with her appearence on the box - and her death was effectively captured on the box ( if not explicitly ) - an interesting phenomenom - its as if reality TV that has moved onto the next level

[Michael Palaeologus]

Her death at such a young age and leaving 2 small children is a tragedy, the fact that she died on Mothers Day makes it even more so as, year on year, that day will be tainted for her sons, something which may hopefully end when they themselves have children and can celebrate again.

However, it is and should be a private tragedy. I have tried to separate in my own mind the fact of her death from the hooplah that surrounds it. I find the former sad, albeit a sadness felt by a stranger for the tragic death of any person. I find the latter, a distasteful media circus which yet again demonstrates how low large sections of the media have sunk; sadly driven by the demands of those people that purchase their product.

In the end "Jade" was a Branded product. For the press and the society that it tittivates her death was just the latest iteration of that Brand. For her sons her death was the profoundest of losses.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

bignumber5 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't tend towards public grief responses to the

> death of strangers, but a 27 year old mother of 2

> died on mother's day at the end of an extremely

> unpleasant, and probably painful, illness. You

> don't have to be emotionally invested in the Heat

> magazine celeb circus to objectively find that

> sad.

Naturally. It should be the better side of Human Nature.

>

>

> As for the very public portrayal of Jade's illness

> and demise in the spotlight, she had a last chance

> to make a few quid for her kids. I think most

> people, and almost certainly most parents, can

> understand such a parting gesture. I've no idea

> who's reading it, and it doesn't really matter

> whether or not anyone is.

Absolutely.

>

>

> For those who are invested, art imitating life has

> a proud history, outlined above by others, based

> around people wanting to experience emotion and

> the more tangiable the trigger, the more genuine

> the sensation feels. Reality TV and crap celeb

> culture are simply an extension of that, verging

> on life imitating art imitating life. Not my cup

> of tea, but we're all different. BB's point about

> sports teams is a very astute one - it's about

> experiencing emotion, and what does that for the

> individual. But the emotions are no more or less

> genuine for the wider opinion of the trigger. I

> have no doubt that there are some people out there

> who feel genuine grief for a woman that they never

> met. I don't really get it and I certainly don't

> share it in the subjective sense, but I don't have

> to: it's their grief.

Agreed, with the caveat that I certainly can be very upset about a person (or conceivably an Animal) that I have seen, regularly, but never actually met.

I was very sad when Bob Monkhouse died and Emlyn Hughes, who embodied the Spirit Of Life lighting up the surroundings wherever he was, or people that have been part of my life via my living room, for nearly 50 years now.

Maybe its also a sense of the fragility of life and ones own mortality.

In other cases (not Jade) its a feeling that an era is coming to an end.

Jade Goody. R.I.P.

[AllforNun]

barely a mention on the beeb, heard a debate raging today on 5live about wether she should have even been mentioned yesterday ! obviously not middle class enough for auntie. If it was some tosser from ballroom happy clappers they would have been leading for 6 days then re-running the dando story and applying for a statue to be built........god dam liberal communist tax snatchers !

[Mikecg]

SMG wrote,

Mike - what is it I've said that has gotten your goat so? Why the accusation of hypocrisy and who is trying to "crush" you? You are being disagreed with and I think I'm doing so in a reasonable way - what's the problem?

How can somebody disagree with another person showing compassion for two children being left motherless one 6 the other 4, it appears I was just being myself only to be shot down in flames ho hum such is life.

Jade wasn't the greatest most influential person on earth but she wasn't all bad, I suppose she is the de facto victim of fame in every sense of the word, she was created by the media via BB and this is the fallout of it. I think she was brave to publicise her death I doubt very much I or many others would do the same. Don't forget this to my mind is the what the media in this country thrives on and unfortunately its what the people want I dont like it at all but the masses do.

[Cassius]

I am sorry for Jade Goody: a young person had died a painful death and left behind two small children. For the family it is a tragedy probably highlighted by the fact that she died on Mothering Sunday. For me it is no more than the sadness that I feel when I hear of anyones untimely death. In the end it was not Jade herself I disliked, after all I didn't know her although probably had I met her I would have had very little in common with her - it is the Max Cliffords of this world who know a good money making proposition when they see one. Even though she is now dead I thing the Jade parade has some way to go before it runs out of steam.

[Jah Lush]

Pah! Max Clifford made Jade Goody a lot of money. She went to him to help her exploit whatever she could sell to the media and he represented her right up to her dying day. Of course he probably nice tidy sum himself but that's his business.

[mockney piers]

I don't think there was any shooting down in flames going on, just some personal opinions about the whole malarkey. Disagreement is fine.

For instance Cassius' initial point, I don't think anyone can really disagree with, but it has been made eleventy-one times already on this thread.

The point about Max Clifford however, is fresh and I would opine, entirely valid.

He's a vampire on society, sucking out the juices of good taste to his own ends. He feeds off the papers, who feed off him, and they both feed off us, and some of us feed some sort of schadenfreudal goodness from all the guff we read in those papers.

Well, I say we....

[bigbadwolf]

The fact that Max Clifford was on holiday in Portugal when his 'friend' died says it all really. The man is a parasite who'd be better served proping up a motorway flyover wearing concrete.

[Jah Lush]

I used to know Max quite well and the bloke I knew was very nice guy but I agree that his line of work makes him look like a vampire.

[bigbadwolf]

Please don't tell me you were a client of his Jah.

[Jah Lush]

Heaven forfend no.

[bigbadwolf]

THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!

[TheNewMrsH]

He was in it to make money, nothing more, nothing less... a good friend indeed, if my "good" friend were on their deathbed I certainly wouldn't be away on holiday. He is a parasite, look at what he done to Kerry Katona... He knows a good thing when he sees it and exploits it to the fullest. I didn't know Jade but feel desperately sorry for the two young boys she leaves behind. Yes, she kept it all public to make money for her boys and good on her because if I'd have had the upbringing that the poor girl had, I'd do my utmost to ensure that my children were looked after and would never have to live the way that I had had to.

God bless all of those with who have been affected by cancer, it is the worst thing for any family to go through. Rightly or wrongly, she has brought Cervical Cancer to attention and if it saves just one person from cancer, then whatever else she done in her life, she can be proud of herself for that.

God Bless you Jade, and all the other cancer sufferers up there with you, may you rest in peace. My Dad is up there and he'll look after you darling. xx

[Keef]

Whatever your opinions on this, that was rather a lovely post. And whatever my opinions on celebrity, if someone gave me a way to earn a wedge to leave my kids, I'd probably take it.

[woofmarkthedog]

I agree with Keef ,

What with all the s*it said on this site recently* this certainly is a leveler

W**F

(* yes and a good portion of it from myself)