primary school admissions 2015

[sarahsouthlondon]

Hi

Can anyone please help clarify something for me regarding the admissions process? I've asked southwark council as well but it's always good to get forum feedback!

IF you are not allocated a place at your first choice school, and your second choice school is also oversubscribed, would the fact that you put it as second choice jeopardise your chances of getting a place there? So, if you and one other person were competing for places at the same school, and you both lived equidistant from the school, but the other person had put that school as their first choice and you had put it second, would it automatically go to the person who put it first? Or supposing you lived closer than the person who put it first - would promximity trump the fact they'd put it first?

It is highly likely we won't get a place at our first choice school, but I want to give it a try, but don't want to jeopardise a chance of our second choice school!

Also - does anyone have any school recommendations? Our nearest are bessemer and dulwich infants ... any thoughts on any other area schools? We definitely won't get into st xaviers as not church goers and otherwise too far away (I think), too far from rosendale or st judes ... any others I should consider?

Thanks so much!!!

[Mariamadeit]

It is my understanding that the order you put the choices in does not make a difference, it is all on distance, unless you qualify on a different reason, but you should make sure that your choices are in order that you want.

[Kes]

In short, no, putting it second won't matter.

The schools rank all applications based on the admissions criteria, where you put them in your list doesn't impact on this. They give their list to southwark who then figure out who goes where.

So say there are 2 schools A is your first choice B is second choice and both take 30 kids:

If you are ranked in the top 30 of A then you get into A

If you are 31 in A and top 30 in B then you get into B

If you are 31 in A but someone above you put another school as their first choice and gets in there instead then the other child drops out of the rankings for A and you would move up to number 30 and be offered a place

I think that makes sense! Does it? It's two years since we did school applications and I still find it confusing!

Can't suggest any specific school as I'm in Nunhead not ED, I've heard good things about both the ones you mention though. Also might be worth thinking if there is a backup school you would be ok with that you could put 6th? There are a couple of schools which are less popular but have very large or no last distnace at all. It might be worth putting one on the list as a back up in case you don't get anywhere else rather than risking being allocated somewhere miles away?

[acb2013]

It's very confusing. My understanding (going through this last year) is that for each school the council goes through all the applications and assesses them against the admission criteria, which is generally: looked after children and SEN, siblings already at the school and then distance. I think the order you put them in comes in to play if you are in the fortunate position that you meet the distance criteria for 2 schools in which case you'd get given the one that you'd put higher up on your form. Not many people generally seem to be that lucky though! One of the councillors on here, Renata Hamvas, was really helpful in explaining the process.

[sarahsouthlondon]

thanks so much everyone! Very clear replies. I also just found info on the southwark website which said that in th event of a tie break where two applicants meet the oversubscription criteria in the same way, the place will be allocated through drawing lots. So that's that, I think.

Really good point re backup school, Kes. Weird thing is that any other school which is near us and half way decent is oversubscribed and we have no chance of getting into!

[Indiana]

For what it is worth, we almost put Bessemer as our first choice last year even though it was not our nearest. It was a very close call as we were extremely impressed with the Head and the ethos of it as well as the space. So if Bessemer is your nearest school you should go on the tour and get a feel for it. We know alot of happy parents.

[edanna]

There are quite a few Bessemer parents on here too (like me) who I'm sure would be happy to answer your questions. As Indiana says, go on a tour and see what you think and feel. I went round all 6 we were putting down but Bessemer was the one I had an amazing feeling about.

[sarahsouthlondon]

Thanks everyone! I have been on a tour of bessemer and dulwich - unfortunately ran out of time to tour others as we then moved abroad for 6 months. But I think it's highly likely we will end up in one of the above.

I have to say I came out of the bessemer tour feeling really excited and impressed.

But I then got a bit nervous about it as I have heard it was struggling in the not too distant past, whereas dulwich has been excellent for a long time.

I want my daughter to be safe at school, to be treated sensitively (she's a bit of a high maintenance sensitive soul herself!) by the teachers and be supported by them if she is having problems with other kids. I'm not that worried about test results but I do want her to feel inspired to learn and enabled to find her strengths and deal with her weaknesses. Sorry for going on a bit but would LOVE to hear from any bessemer parents on here as to whether the school would meet those hopes.

Thanks all!

[peggoula]

Hello

My daughter is at Bessemer reception.

We live about 300m from Heber but didn't get in...

Anyway just wanted to reassure you that the school is excellent.

Communication with parents is amazing, level of education quite incredible (the amount of progress even in the first term absolutely unbelievable) and in general I cannot praise the school enough.

The Head teacher turned the school around from what I understand, and she has a child in year 1 so I think she is going to stick around.

If you need specific info, please send me a DM - I am a newbie there obviously but if I can help out I am more than happy to give you details.

[edanna]

It's true that 5+ years ago Bessemer wasn't very popular but that certainly isn't the case now. The school is oversubscribed and the majority of admissions now are first-choice applications. As peggoula says, the turnaround is a lot to do with the newish head. The deputy head is also amazing and there is a really strong management team as well as lots of lovely enthusiastic teachers and teaching assistants. See lots more on this thread from April: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1305594,1305633 Feel free to PM me for more info.

[rachel4]

They are not in the Starting Schools brochure, but does anyone know the official furthest place offered distances for DVI, Goose Green, Harris ED and St John's please?

Thank you.

Rachel

[Mariamadeit]

My son is at harris ed and the children are quite widely spread, which is to be expected as no one knew what it would be like until we started in September, until they move to the permanent site on lordship lane, the catchment is likely to be a bit random. There are still places in my son's year but once it moves, i wouldn't be surprised if it becomes highly competitive to get in.

[gm99]

Hi All,

I would be really grateful if anyone can help answer a question about how the reserve system works. (I tried calling Southwark and am not confident that my question was understood.)

It is conceivable that we live close enough to get a place at any of the nearest four primary schools to our house on the basis of distance (given what we know about where children who live very close to us go). The closest school is probably our least favourite of the four.

I understand that in the event of being in the top 60 (they are all 2 form schools) at more than one school on April 16th we would be offered a place at the one we ranked highest on the application form.

Can someone shed some light on how the reserve list process works in the scenario that we apply to all 4 and only get our 4th choice school in the first instance? Would our child go on the reserve list for all of our 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices, or just the 1st? (One snippit I did get from Southwark - if correct - was that you don't go on the reserve list for schools that you have ranked below the one offered initially.)

One other thing: does anyone know if info about previous years' 'furthest distances' are available anywhere (Southwark only seem to make available the figures for last year)?

Many thanks,

gm99

[Renata Hamvas]

Hello all, you will be offered a place at your highest placed school on your form that you are eligible for a place for. This means that for example of you are within the last placed distance for two schools, you will be offered a place at the school higher on your list. If you are for example offered your 4th place school, you will automatically go onto the waiting list of the three higher placed schools. You can also ask Southwark Admissions to add your name to the waiting list of other schools, eg if you don't get a low choice and then realise you would prefer a local school that you didn't initially apply for. Goose Green (an Academy, hence why it 's distance wasn't in the Southwark book) had a last place offered distance over just over 300m. I don't know about DVI or St John's as they are both faith schools who offer half of their place on faith and half on distance, I would suggest contacting the schools directly. Anecdotal evidence suggest St John's had a small last place distance as there were many siblings this year. Harris ED offered places to all who applied. GM99, there are threads from previous years with the last place distances of Southwark Schools. Oversubscribed three form entry schools such as Bessemer and Goodrich tend to have larger last place distances than popular two form entry schools.

Renata

[gm99]

Thanks Renata - that's really helpful and greatly appreciated.

[Renata Hamvas]

The one situation where you may hold two places is if you apply via the CAF system and to the new Belham primary. See the thread about Belham if you are interested to apply to this school.

[mima08]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hello all, you will be offered a place at your

> highest placed school on your form that you are

> eligible for a place for. This means that for

> example of you are within the last placed

> distance for two schools, you will be offered a

> place at the school higher on your list. If you

> are for example offered your 4th place school, you

> will automatically go onto the waiting list of the

> three higher placed schools.

many thanks for the explanation, Renata. I am still a little unsure: how long do you then stay on the list of any higher placed schools? Are you at risk of loosing a place if you don't accept it? So, for example you get offered a place on the 4th place school and don't accept it because you are hoping for the 1st, 2nd or 3rd placed one, can you lose out? Can you end up with none of the places, worst case scenario?

thanks

m

[gm99]

Renata, just a thought, but the Southwark 'starting primary school' brochure could definitely be a bit clearer and more comprehensive on a number of points. Perhaps this is something you could feed back, with reference to the kinds of questions being raised here?

E.g. from my perspective the brochure:

- has nothing on how the waiting list system works for parents whose child is offered a school from their 'preference' list (that isn't their first choice) - the 'waiting list' section seems to refer only to the case that a place is not offered at any of the 'preferred' schools;

- uses some confusing terms (see references to 'ranked lists' and 'ranked order' at the bottom of p.11 - referring, respectively, to lists of applicants to individual schools and the list of preferences indicated by parents on application forms);

- there is nothing on having your name added to a waiting list for a school not included in the initial preferences (as you mentioned above) - only for out of borough schools;

- it might usefully be illustrated with some examples.

[bemusED]

Our kid is in year one at Bessemer. Our ambitions, hopes and fears were similar to yours.

When we were applying in Jan 2013, the previous few years' entry figures showed Bessemer had been notably undersubscribed and i think it was in part to do with it being a bit tucked out of the way. Not many people were aware of it. But once you visit, you realise that its facilities are so much better than the Victorian buildings of other schools nearby.

Apart from the amount of communication we receive by letter every week, i can't say anything but good things about the school.

The head is extremely hands on and will respond to questions or issues or comments quickly, professionally and with a human touch - she is rare and really appreciated by the parents we know.

The teachers we have had have been inspiring, supportive, and manage to get the kids to learn so much, it truely remarkable, especially in reception cause they don't even realise that they are learning most of the time, yet they are reading and writing within a couple of months in classrooms without tables and lots of free=play inside and out.

There is a great set of families at the school. Everyone we have met appears to want the best for their kid and make the effort to ensure it happens. F@B, the parents group, are a dedicated, awesome bunch - evidenced yet again, by today's Winter Fair.

Honestly, I wish I was a kid again, but this time at Bessemer!

sarahsouthlondon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks everyone! I have been on a tour of bessemer

> and dulwich - unfortunately ran out of time to

> tour others as we then moved abroad for 6 months.

> But I think it's highly likely we will end up in

> one of the above.

> I have to say I came out of the bessemer tour

> feeling really excited and impressed.

> But I then got a bit nervous about it as I have

> heard it was struggling in the not too distant

> past, whereas dulwich has been excellent for a

> long time.

> I want my daughter to be safe at school, to be

> treated sensitively (she's a bit of a high

> maintenance sensitive soul herself!) by the

> teachers and be supported by them if she is having

> problems with other kids. I'm not that worried

> about test results but I do want her to feel

> inspired to learn and enabled to find her

> strengths and deal with her weaknesses. Sorry for

> going on a bit but would LOVE to hear from any

> bessemer parents on here as to whether the school

> would meet those hopes.

> Thanks all!

[Renata Hamvas]

Hello all, gm99, I will pass on your points. Mima08, you won't end up without a school place. Southwark keeps the waiting lists until the start of the Autumn term. You are automatically accepted for your offered school. If you get offered a place at your 4th place school and then later at your 2nd choice school, you can choose whether to accept the place at the 4th or 2nd choice school. If you accept the 2nd choice school you will lose the place at your 4th choice school but still remain on the waiting list for your 1st choice school. If a place become available there eg in August, you can then decide first or second choice school. It is always advisable to put 6 schools down as being given a 5th or 6th choice school is usually preferable for parents than Southwark giving you a school place, where places remain, as you could be allocated a school that may be for example difficult for you to get to. Do look at last place distances from last year these are fluid from year to year but do give an idea of how close you need to be to a particular school to secure a place there. Be aware that these can go up or down and can shrink quite rapidly if a school suddenly becomes popular.If your 5th/6th closest school had a last place distance of 300m in 2014 and you live 1.1km from it, it may be a better option putting something else down eg a faith school close to you even if you're not religious or a school near the station you commute to for work that had a large last place distance etc. Order is important as you will be give the highest school on the list that you fulfill the criteria for. Remember you can apply separately for Belham this year.

Renata

[mima08]

HI Renata - thank you for clarifying the point about the waiting lists and also the bit about putting down 5/6th choice near a station or similar - hadn't thought of that before!

[sarahsouthlondon]

Just to say thanks to all the Bessemer parents who have replied. It's absolutely wonderful to hear such enthusiasm for the school - you all make it sound totally fantastic. I'm feeling like it's going to be our number 1 choice - going to do another tour of it and Dulwich in January just to be sure.

And thank you Renata for the v helpful clarification on admissions etc.