Consultation on ?improving? the junction of East Dulwich Grove, Townley Road and Green Dale

[DadOf4]

Is it something I'm missing, or does that report mention nothing about the fact the the junction is now worse for cyclists coming from Greendale ?

I cant see any corrective action in thst document that would fix this problem

[slarti b]

The report confirms the findings of the interim report from May\June this year; Southwark have designed and built a junction that is dangerous for cyclists. It also highlights the additional danger caused by the right turn filter into Townley not working properly.

The traffic light issue has been pointed out many times on this forum by different people, indeed I saw a cyclist nearly colliding with a car on Wed morning because of it.

Cllr Barber.

It is unfortunate that you were unable to read the interim (Stage 2?) report; hopefully you can find time to read this one.

If you care about safety at this junction you should

1) Press Southwark and TFL to correct the traffic lights as a matter of extreme urgency. It is outrageous this has not been sorted out after almost 6 weeks of operation.

2) Ask Southwark for their plans to properly address the other dangers identified as soon as possible

It is clear that the Southwark officers (named in the report) who designed and managed this "improvement" are reluctant to accept the audit's recommendations. Among other things, they dismissed the findings of the interim (Stage 2?) audit concerning coaches turning left overrunning the ASL and even now have not properly addressed the criticism.

I think our councillors should be holding Southwark council to account for this dangerous fiasco.

[QueenMab]

To be honest I'm not interested in reading through 50 pages of local council guff about this: that's your job Mr Barber. What I want is some kind of assurance that a dangerous junction next to 2 schools is going to be made safer for everyone. Can you provide that assurance?

[Penguin68]

that's your job Mr Barber - that's a 'job' which is basically unpaid and frequently unappreciated. It might be the function of our elected representatives to require of our paid apparatchiks some form of communication capability which allowed ordinary citizens to penetrate the morass of bilge pumped out in our names to discover the nuggets within - but, in the end, if we want to find stuff out, it is, sort of, up to us. Where our representatives do come in is if and when we discover ambiguities which need sorting out. But they are our representatives, not our secretaries.

[QueenMab]

" that's a 'job' which is basically unpaid and frequently unappreciated"

Well fair enough, but he's put himself up for the job nevertheless. As it stands, it would just be nice to have someone say, "I'm sorry about your near-death experience, I'll see what I can to do make sure this never happens again", rather than "here's 50+ pages of impenetrable local council reporting, only of tangential relevance to your situation, crack on".

[rodneybewes]

It's amazing he puts himself up here for this abuse given the astonishing mix of arrogance, sloth and self-entitlement that a lot of the posters give him. Even as they're demanding all kinds of him whilst doing very little for themselves.

[QueenMab]

It's hardly a mix of "arrogance, sloth and self-entitlement" to ask a public representative on a public forum why a traffic system which costs thousands to implement isn't working properly.

Anyone?

[rodneybewes]

Quite frankly I'm not interested in wading through your self-justifications for not being arsed to actually do the slightest bit of work for yourself on an issue you find so important, only to rudely throw it onto someone else in an imperious manner as if they are only here to do your whim. That's your job MRS Mab.

I am of course flattering you by imitating your tone, with a little bit thrown in.

[Yogi_bear]

This junction is being resurfaced this evening (and overnight it seems). I can still hear the work happening now at half past midnight. Surely this was just resurfaced as part of the work while the junction was closed over the summer? I hope we are not paying Conways to rip up what looked like a perfectly good road surface and relay it again.

[fazer71]

Road junction madness.

Resurface Rebuild Renew

When its not broken.

Spend spend spend other peoples money.

Waste waste waste time and money.

That's the Con Way to con con con.

Now we just need to put a tune to it.

[DadOf4]

Yes, I couldn't quite believe it when I saw this last night at about 9pm (attached photo)

There must have been over twenty guys and a whole load of plant & machinery. Plus townley/Calton were both closed

WTF ?

[Scootingover]

what on earth where they doing?

[richard tudor]

rodneybewes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Quite frankly I'm not interested in wading through

> your self-justifications for not being arsed to

> actually do the slightest bit of work for yourself

> on an issue you find so important, only to rudely

> throw it onto someone else in an imperious manner

> as if they are only here to do your whim. That's

> your job MRS Mab.

Perhaps he asked the Cllr because he was aware that he might not get any answer from the Council or he might get a holding response to allow them to investigate which means. no chance.

When a Cllr puts in a Cllrs Enquiry the council logs it and most managers will respond immediately or face questioning why not.

Hence get Cllr or MP to write

[fazer71]

Chicane Southwark.

Is it me?

I regularly drive from Lordship Lane to London Bridge via Woolworth Rd.

I can't remember a time in the last 15 years where there were NO road works.

It's around 5 miles and every 1/2 mile currently there appears to be some form of works traffic lights bus stop renewal lane restriction pavements curbs Elephant it a nightmare it constant.

I would guess that route has had over ?20-40million spent on it that 5 miles so between ?4million and ?8million a mile!

YET the road surface is an absolute disgrace I saw a cyclist hit a pot hole and go flying on the Woolworth rd.

I've had a couple of buckled wheels on my car.

WTF as Southark doing ??

This is complete madness.

Will there ever be a time when the works are finished ?

Will there ever be a time where the roads flow and there's no tail backs at midnight at some point between lordship lane and London bridge ??

Last night it took me 45 minutes to drive from Moorgate to Lordship Lane ! 45 Minutes at MIDNIGHT !!!

This is MADNESS !!!! UTTER MADNESS !!!!

EVERY road ever intersection including this one has become a Chicane Chicane Chicane Chicane Chicane Chicane

Speed BUMPS and Chicanes costing millions to build and millions to maintain.

We are living in one of the craziest boroughs in London ..

Utter madness ...

This junction is just the latest in their grand plan to drive us all insane.

And we all know in a few year all the bumps and chicanes will be removed ....

BONKERS !

[HelBel65]

>>>>>>This junction is just the latest in their grand plan to drive us all insane<<<<<<

It would appear to be working in some cases!

[@Woodwarde]

Please see this email asking for views on Southwark's consultation methods:

From: Sangweme, Dennis On Behalf Of Planning.Applications

Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:01 AM

To: Sangweme, Dennis

Subject: Have your say on the future of planning consultations - 21st Century Public Notices Survey

Dear Resident/Customer,

The planning division is taking part in a Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) pilot aimed at making public notices, including public consultation on planning, more accessible and attuned to the new ways people consume information in the 21st century. You will find more information on this pilot via the following link: 21st Century Notices.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200074/planning_and_building_control/3848/21st_century_notices_pilot_project

We would like to further understand your needs and preferences regarding consultation on planning applications following an earlier survey in June 2015. We are particularly interested in your views on the recent improvements on the consultation process, including changes made to site notices, neighbour consultation letters, online planning register and submitting comments online. The survey should take up to ten minutes to complete and all responses are anonymous. Please feel free to pass the survey on to others interested in participating.

Take part in the survey here

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1mDmNmG3RjPLLdS0X749JyGtqmhpT3nYq06x_7kTRgLA/viewform

The survey will be open until the 31st of October 2015.

Kind Regards,

Dennis Sangweme | Group Manager ? Validation & Fast Track

Development Management | Planning Division| Chief Executive's Department

The London Borough of Southwark | PO Box 64529 | London SE1P 2QH

T: 0207 525 5419 | E: [email protected]

[Curmudgeon]

There's a lollipop man at the junction now

Clearly not a safe junction by any stretch of the imagination

[QueenMab]

The lollipop man and woman are not new additions, they have always been there, prior to the works being carried out. You'll notice they are stationed at all major junctions near schools.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm pretty certain that isn't actually true

I have used that route at the end of the school day for 7 years (car and bicycle) ...I have NEVER seen a lollipop man at that junction...up at the top of Townley Road and Lordship Lane yes and also on the corner of East Dulwich Grove and Red Post Hill but never at this junction

It seemed to be a one off anyway ...not seen him since

[hopskip]

Southwark News Public Notices 21st Oct 2015

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/public-notices/road-network-townley-road-at-east-dulwich-grove/

ROAD NETWORK ? TOWNLEY ROAD AT EAST DULWICH GROVE

NEWS DESK (21 October, 2015)

LONDON BOROUGH OF SOUTHWARK

TOWNLEY ROAD AT EAST DULWICH GROVE JUNCTION IMPROVEMENTS

The London Borough of Southwark (Waiting and loading restrictions) (Amendment No. 5) Order 2015

The London Borough of Southwark (Prohibition of stopping on entrance markings) (Amendment No. 10) Traffic Order 2015

The London Borough of Southwark (Cycle lanes) (No. 1) Traffic Order 2015

1. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the council of the London Borough of Southwark on 22 October 2015 made the above-mentioned orders under sections 6 and 124 of and Part IV of Schedule 9 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended.

2. The general effect of the orders, following determination by the Cabinet Member for Environment and the Public realm (see:- http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?ID=5439 ) of objections received to the proposal as advertised on 09 July 2015 (see:- https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2364649 ), will be:- (a) to introduce new lengths of ?at any time? waiting restrictions in CALTON AVENUE, EAST DULWICH GROVE, GREEN DALE and TOWNLEY ROAD; (b) to relocate an existing length of ?school keep clear? markings in GREEN DALE; © to designate mandatory cycle lanes at the following locations:- EAST DULWICH GROVE, the south-east side, on the approach to its junction with Townley Road ? a with-flow cycle lane; [ii] GREEN DALE, the north-east side, on the approach to its junction with East Dulwich Grove ? a with-flow cycle lane; and [iii] TOWNLEY ROAD, the south-west side, on the approach to its junction with East Dulwich Grove ? a with-flow cycle lane.

3. FURTHER NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the council of the London Borough of Southwark will construct under section 65(1) of the Highways Act 1980 a segregated cycle track for the use of pedal cycles only at the following location:- CALTON AVENUE and TOWNLEY ROAD, the south-west side, a one-way north-westbound cycle track comprising a 1.5 metre wide corridor indicated by a traffic sign within the north-western and south-western footway extending from a point on the north-western kerb-line of Calton Avenue 9.6 metres south-east of the south-western kerb-line of Townley Road to a point on the south-western kerb-line of Townley Road 11.5 metres north-west of the north-western kerb-line of Calton Avenue.

4. Copies of the orders, which will come into force on 23 October 2015, and of all other relevant documents are available for inspection until the end of a period of six weeks from the date the orders were made at the upon request at Public realm projects ? network development, Southwark council, Environment and leisure, 3rd floor hub 1, 160 Tooley Street, London SE1 2QH. Please telephone 020 7525 2005 or e-mail:- [email protected] to arrange an appointment.

5. Any persons desiring to question the validity of the orders or of any provision contained therein on the grounds that it is not within the relevant powers of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 or that any of the relevant requirements thereof or of any relevant regulations made thereunder has not been complied with in relation to the orders may, within six weeks of the date on which the orders were made, make application for the purpose to the High Court.

Dated 22 October 2015

NICKY COSTIN

Road network and parking business unit manager, Public realm

[Townleygreen]

Curmudgeon, the council were going to cut the lollipop people from that junction 4 or 5 years ago. A local campaign and demonstration successfully prevented that.

I can't explain how you haven't registered their presence though!

[Curmudgeon]

Townleygreen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Curmudgeon, the council were going to cut the

> lollipop people from that junction 4 or 5 years

> ago. A local campaign and demonstration

> successfully prevented that.

> I can't explain how you haven't registered their

> presence though!

I pass it between 3.10 and 3.20 most school days when there are copious Charter School students around and that was the first time I have noticed one

[QueenMab]

Well I've been taking my son to school via that junction every day for the last year and a half and they have been there every day...!

[edhistory]

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2420747

[mlteenie]

Not sure whether anyone has already made this comment, but I doubt I am alone.

Another reason this junction is worse (especially for cyclists) is that because of the removal of the refuge at the lights on Townley and the new stop line for the traffic coming uphill on EDG there is now a large space at the junction.

Three times in the last month I have turned right from Townley, aiming then to do a right into Hillsboro Road and upon checking over my shoulder I have discovered a motorist attempting to overtake me on the right in the aforementioned gap. I am a cycling instructor and well aware of how to play this rather tricky manouevre, but when riding in the correct position the new layout allows dim-witted/impatient drivers to take misguided liberties. Fortunately with firm hand gestures I have not had an accident, but I am concerned for any cyclist doing the same turns. I even saw a cyclist turn right onto EDG and rather than take the correct route, rode down the oncoming cycle lane before entering Hillsboro. Whad a twad!