Where else in the world but here?

[Louisa]

Highly topical discussion, but I am pretty amused and angry at the same time. Somerfield and Barclays bank along LL both closed, all London buses suspended, delays on trains and underground, cars sliding along main roads. Oh it must be a couple of inches of snow in London! No wonder!

I have been to Toronto and Moscow and experienced temperatures of well below freezing, as low as -22 in Moscow when I was visiting in 1995. Everything kept running, everwhere was open and people still managed to survive the daily slog to work. It isnt only the fact that we are not used to big falls of snow any longer, it is the fact that we are rarely if ever prepared for such rare events. Why do TFL think it is acceptable in a global city to stop the entire bus service for a few inches of snow? What is the justification? Are they just too damn bloody lazy to want to work or what? Why have very few of our main routes through ED NOT been salted/gritted, hence making the situation worse? Why are people on the roads so damn stupid that they cant slow down a little bit? All of these questions need answering and it angers me like mad! In the north of England and Scotland snow is a regular event and big cities like Birmingham and Manchester still manage to keep going, so why the hell is it such chaos here?

Extreme weather events happen, everyone should have been well prepared and we should have been able to keep this huge city running without all this chaos. Will local councils and public transport learn from this event for future reference? I highly doubt it..

Louisa.

[Sandperson]

What I can't understand is what was so important that you needed Somerfield or Barclays bank? There are other food shops and their are other banks. Why can't people like you relax and enjoy an enforced lazy day?

As for the gritting and buses, I think the facts are that gritting doesn't work on several inches of snow and to be honest I wouldn't want to be on a bus in these road conditions with some of the psycho drivers (bus and cars) around here.

[SeanMacGabhann]

come down off the ceiling Louisa. It's precisely because weather like this is so rare in London compared to other countries that we grind to a halt. Those countries have their own problems which interrupt their lives as well

If the buses were in operation today the already dodgy roads would be exacerbated. Gritting, as discussed elsewhere, only works if there is enough traffic on the road for it to "bite". It only takes a couple of buses to slip on a hill for whole roads to be jammed (plus TFL uinnundated from passengers looking for a pound of flesh)

Today is a chance to look at the world in a different way - take that chance and enjoy it.

[????]

Yup, what Sean says, this is the worst snow in London since 1991...and normally there's none these days...so let's invest in state of the art snowploughs and snow clearing technology....er, not...let's just have a day off :)-D

[macroban]

Where's the post from Singapore telling us how clever they are over there in keeping their streets free of snow?

[Louisa]

no Sean, what excerbates the problem is when people do precisely what you are saying, stop driving and running buses! The gritting is fully effective, i've seen it work on bigger falls of snow than this before in other parts of the country and it is no doubt because people actually just get on with it, rather than make a huge song a dance about a bit of snow! So what, we dont get snow that often, does this mean we should therefore not be prepared for it?

As for you Sandperason, just because you dont want to get on a bus doesnt mean the rest of the population are that damn lazy they want to stay home and get a day off! Somerfield and Barclays are both businesses, if everyone in Canada and other countries closer to home that had this much snow just decided oh lets not open today we'll take time off, they would not be in business for very long would they? God some people are just stupid lol.

Louisa.

[karter]

It is snowing again. I don't remember seeing the impact Snow has had on london as it has today. London was not prepped for this louisa. As Sean says.

[Strawbs]

totally agree with the sentiment of just sit back, relax and enjoy! Its not like this happens every winter, this is the first winter in 4 years that I have been here that I have seen it.. Its my very first UK snow day and I am absolutely loving it!!

x

[Penguin68]

This is, apparently, the worse snow-fall that London has seen for 18 years - we 'normally' get only one or two even mildly snowy days a year, if that. I, for one, would be unhappy paying for the infrastucture (snow ploughs, gritting machinery for all roads, training, staffing etc. etc.) at the level of Toronto and Moscow for approximately one day's use out of every 600. With train fares at the level they are I would be unhappy to be paying for heated rails etc. etc. again for a minimal use every year.

The justification that TFL has is that our general climate does not justify expenditure on snow chains, skid training etc. for our buses and bus drivers. It may well be that we are due to see increased extremes of climate which will cost-justify such expenditure, but snow, in London, is still an extraordinary event. Central London, with its office etc. population, is normally sufficiently warmer than the surrounding countryside that snow rarely has a chance of settling - the fact is that we had a snowfall on Sunday evening - when the capital is probably at its coldest, as the heat sink which is its concrete and pavements (like a big storage heater) has had most time to dissipate.

I am very glad that TFL (and local authorities) do still undertake some form of cost:benefit analysis. I couldn't afford their charges if they decided to invest against any eventuality, however unlikely.

As it is, for a day or two every couple of years at most, we have a little disruption to our lives, a day off school or work, perhaps, a little inconvenience.

And the cities you write of are also disrupted when their weather is (for them) extreme - think of the ice storms that devastated North America some time back, and I can recall reports of hypothermia deaths in Moscow. They had prepared for their (normal) snow, but not for those extremes.

[Louisa]

I think some people are forgetting that London is actually a global city, it keeps this country alive and kicking (just about), and without it we would all be in dire straits. For our latitude and our proximity to the continent it does not take a rocket scientist to realise that every so often it might snow, why not just be prepared for it huh? Businesses closing and public transport being on the lock down gives a very bad impression to foreign visitors and foreign investors. I have seen snow an awful lot heavier than this in London back in the 1980's, just because it's not happened in a while does in no way justify today's antics by the institutions which suposedly keep this city moving. It is an utter disgrace and I bet people in other parts of Europe and the world are laughing at us, I know I am!

Louisa.

[Mikecg]

I phoned my boss and told him I wasnt coming to work because of the snow, no busses or trains. I cant turn off the traction control on my car it looked like an igloo, I tried but the neighbours were giving me strange looks from their windows, So I phoned my boss told him the good news and he decided to pick me up from home as he was already on the road. For F*ck Sake, I wanted to build a snow man with my Son today, Oh well! now ive got to cable up a load of poxy servers......

[Sandperson]

Thanks for the stupid comment Louisa. If your experience of Canada and Moscow is so good then why don't you go back there? If you really think that the rest of the world laugh at us because we have problems with a heavy snowfall every ten years or so then you are the stupid one. Do you wander the streets blushing in shame at the potholes in the road and the rubbish on the pavements? Do you cry in embarrassment at the queues outside such cultural establishments as Madame Tussards and The London Dungeon?

Just tell me this. If it's so important that these businesses open for you today why aren't you volunteering to get into your car and pick up some of their staff? Also, the pavement and road outside my house could do with clearing so once you've got Lordship Lane up and running be a dear and come and grab a shovel off me.

[Louisa]

Sandperson, as I have already stated, the reason some people cant get to work is because of the pathetic decision by TFL to cancel all London bus routes. This then leads onto people who need to come a distance to get to work not being able to do so, knock on effects and so on, this then means shop closures, this then means a missed days trading. Obviously this doesnt really bother you, oh well, you arnt everyone are you? Further to your comment about me living in Toronto and Moscow, I dont run away from problems I prefer to get them fixed where I already am thankyou very much. If you were a trouist staying at a central London hotel today what would you be thinking of this situation? It is winter, you are in a northern hemisphere city not exactly shy of snow historically, the largest in the EU may I add, and you cant get a bus because of a bit of snow on the ground. It is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in all my years of living here.

Louisa.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I think it is great! I mean realistically, how often does the bus and train service come to a standstill? and for how long? once in a blue moon and for a day or two at the most so I hardly think it is worth getting into a state about!

Go and embrace the snow and have some fun! Go on, you might enjoy it!

[Sandperson]

If I was a tourist in a central London hotel I would be thinking what a magical day it was and that it'll be lovely walking around a capital with a romantic layer of snow on it.

You don't seem to be considering the people who might REALLY be suffering like the old and infirm. Are you Gordon Gecko? Does it all have to come down to how much money Somerfield et al will be losing?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I have been on buses in London during heavy snow in the 80s and 90s - what happens then. Gridlock.. no buses move - ergo people have to walk anyway

Louisa - the answer is provided by several people already - for the amount of times this happens it isn't WORTH inesting in the sort of equipment and people to deal with this problem. As for expertes saying this is costing London "billions" of pounds they are

a) plucking figures out of the air

b) the same people who, when faced with tighter regulations a year or so back, said London would lose "billions" as business would not deal with tighter regulations

If people are laughing at us let them. They have there own problems. Neither city nor country you mention is without it's own problems.. really... this does not matter a jot in the bigger scheme of things

[Louisa]

Yes funnily enough it does, because the elderly and infirm rely on the bus services and public transport in general, they rely on shops to stay open for them to buy necessary goods when it is like this, how about you think before you type? Everything has a knock on effect, but you dont see that do you? I may as well be conversing with a brick wall.

Louisa.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I agree Sean, I think it is quite sad that someone would get really worked up and excited about public transport and businesses closing for one day once in a while...I mean for goodness sake, there is more to life than getting upset because Barclays is not open and the buses cannot run once in a blue moon! And you only have to look at how happy everyone else seems to be that they are able to have one day off to be able to enjoy a bit of quality time and to live a little! We need more excitement and fun if you ask me! We spend the majority of our lives working, paying our taxes, queuing up in shops and banks, so I think we are allowed to be excited about having a day off just to have some fun!

[Ted Max]

It's the department stores on the high streets of Bromley and Clapham I'm worried for.

[chuff]

Well we've had a great monday morning in the park playing. Certainly beats working!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Ermm Louisa, you make it sound like public transport and businesses have been shut for a whole month...it is ONE day! I really don't think everyone is going to starve to death and the whole country is going to be falling apart!

[Louisa]

Sean when a country is in recession and tourism is one of the few things that actually seems to be a revenue maker these days, I think it is utterly essential that we keep things moving. I agree that the number of days in which we have such conditions has become a rareity in recent decades, but this does not justify things coming to a halt. A little forward planning would surely help matters, maybe even a revised emergency bus timetable would work, but stopping buses altogether is just not a good idea for business, the elderly, people who do actually want to get to work and infrastucture in general. It is winter time for christs sake, the met office gave plenty of warning and we are in a recession, all of these factors should mean that things can and indeed should keep moving. But this laid back approach isnt necessary in my opinion.

I can remember buses running in London in the 70's when we didnt have the technology for heated rails and widespread gritting, and winter were a hell of a lot worse in those days. We dont have to spend billions of pounds to keep London moving, that is just what certain people say because they couldnt organise a p*ss up in a brewery.

Louisa.

[SteveT]

The old and infirm would be well advised to stay home as I am sure they will.

[Shaggy]

We are all doooooomed I tell you. Dooooooooooomed.

[Horsebox]

Louisa,

did you happen notice if SMBS was open?