What is the Dulwich Estate doing to our pubs?

[The Dulwich Raider]

What have the Half Moon, The Grove and the Crown & Greyhound got in common?

You can't get a blinkin' pint in any of them.

I wrote a piece for Deserter on it:

http://deserter.co.uk/2014/10/pubwatch-herne-hill-dulwich/

Would love to hear people's thoughts on the matter.

TDR

PS It might be a bit sweary

[Jah Lush]

Another excellent article. Well said that man.

[steveo]

Seconded.

It's time to man the barricades

For the Dog, the Half Moon and the Grove, appeal to the Chief Executive of the governors john.major@thedulwichestate.org.uk (no not that one)

For the Fox on the Hill do as the Deserter says: "If you would like to add your voice to those requesting the pub be kept open, email licensing@southwark.gov.uk (and supply your name and address)

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Good article , I have added my name .

[intexasatthe moment]

What everyone else has said .

Special mention for The freeholder, Dulwich Estate, which owns 1,500 acres of property, roads, parks and probably air in the area

[Jeremy]

IMO, turning the Dog into a hotel (retaining a ground floor bar) is a good idea. The area needs a decent hotel. The upstairs function room wasn't really used much (as far as I know), and wasn't very nice. And the dining area at the back rarely seemed busy.

As long as it's a proper pub on the ground floor, not just a small bland hotel bar.

[Jah Lush]

Jeremy Wrote:

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>

> As long as it's a proper pub on the ground floor,

> not just a small bland hotel bar.

And there's the rub.

A village without it's local pub is just wrong. Personally, I think the hotel idea is total folly. Time will tell.

[Jeremy]

I know I've said it before, but if it's along the lines of the Fullers model... i.e. a good four-star hotel with a proper pub downstairs and period character... everyone's a winner. Somewhere to get a decent pint, somewhere nice for friends/relatives to stay, a bit of decent grub, a few local jobs created.

We shall see.

[jimbo1964]

Good article.

[Otta]

Agree with Jeremy about the Dog.

A decent place to hire rooms would be good and the function room didn't seem to get used too often.

There is no reason it couldn't remain a decent sized pub downstairs.

Dulwich Village is hardly some little village in the middle of nowhere, they can walk 10 minutes to anothjer pub.

And finally, The Dog has always been shit.

[Otta]

Desperately hope to see The Half Moon reopen as a venue for music though.

[StraferJack]

As ever I love reading Dulwich Raider's blog and agree with much of what he says - but something about this article didn't sit right

Yes all of the pubs sit within Dulwich Estate but I don't think the situation has as much to do with them as the article suggests

The root causes for all 4 pubs mentioned are quite different

The Grove - for years it's been a wasteland with a succession of remakes and indifferent management ensuring it's nobodies idea of a go to destination. Dulwich Estate is Arsene Wenger and the Grove is Nicklas Bendtner - what can they do?

The Dog - long mooted to be a hotel, it's finally happening. This forum is a testament to the appetite for hotel accomodation in the area, it's a huge underused and suitable venue and as long as they keep a good bar open, it can only be win-win for everyone.

The Half Moon - yes it's but like half the business in HH it was banjaxed by that flood. Unlike half the business, trade wasn't great before the flood and I can see why it's a struggle to get going again. Like Otta I really hope it does and with the venue intact - but more locals need to use the blinking place. That's not on Dulwich Estate

The Fox - only been twice. always busy ????- been a morgue the times I have been

But yeah a licence review - not the end of the world. Spoiler Alert - it will continue trading

[Otta]

It's always been pretty busy on occasions I've been, but can't say that's particularly regular.

But I think you've hit the nail on the head, Grove and Half Moon = Simply not enough people going there.

[snowy]

The Half Moon not busy? Are we talking about the same pub? It was one of the few football screening pubs in the area, both bars were busy; it sold a lot of food.

[StraferJack]

I said "trade wasn't great" - it certainly had busy periods but for a big gaff, plenty of down time as well. I reckon I was going there twice a week and most times could take the pick of where I wanted to sit. That includes during some games (admittedly not a top of table clash)

[El Pibe]

wot otta and sj said really.

Dog erm, shit, so to speak.

I never really liked the HM, it always seemed to be half the pub it shold be, and with stiff competition in the area somthing needs to give.

Plus I'm pretty sure it's closure was the catalyst for some of the regulars ending up down Champion Hill and forming the core of what is now known as the rabble!!

I lived round the corner from the FoH, and whilst rarely bustling it always had enough people to make a smaller place seem busy. Beer is good and cheap, only dowsnide is it vaguely smells of death,

[steveo]

As usual the ?migr?s know best

[El Pibe]

I do hope they make a decent fist of a pub in the Dog though, it woud be criminal for it to end up like this:

 

[Jah Lush]

steveo Wrote:

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> As usual the ?migr?s know best.

Ha ha. I was going to say something similar but you beat me to it.

[EDOldie]

It seems extraordinary to me that there are three empty pubs on the Dulwich Estate and the question has to asked whether this is the best thing for the Charity as well as the area. I am sure that the various schools must be scratching their heads (so to speak) in wonder. A better location for a hotel would have been the Grove. A Hotel here, on the south Circular strategically placed for everything Dulwich has to offer, and with ample parking and probably the space to extend would, I am sure, have appealed to a major (no pun intended) operator. But, it?s still empty. As is the Half Moon and of course the much missed (despite the fact you could never get a drink, the food was crap and the toilets smelt, yeah, get over it) Dog.

The problem comes, that if people stop coming to the area because there?s nowhere for them to go for a drink or to eat (and don?t start me on the Village food offerings, apart from Gails, which is dry of course, and Romeo Jones, don?t know if they have a licence, I must find out), they find other areas and other venues to go to and it will take a great deal of time to get them back. To lose one pub may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness but to lose three looks like pure incompetence. The Dulwich Estate Christmas do this year won?t be a piss up in a brewery, I don?t think they?d be able to organise it.

[steveo]

They may not have had much to do with the three pubs being shut but I think it's beholden on us to at least let the Governors know that someone cares while they make up their minds whether they are conservators or a rapacious property company

[DuncanW]

The Grove would be a good enough location for a hotel, as long as guests don't want to have easy access to a train station and are happy being a 15/20 min walk from the main hubub of ED

[EDOldie]

There's a bus. Oh, actually there are several, 185, 176, 197, P13, P4. You could walk to Forest Hill (Overground) or even East Dulwich if you fancied the walk. As you say 10/15 mins, not long for a Dulwich Hamlet fan. You can walk to Dulwich Park and the Picture Gallery and the Village (but there's nowhere to go for a beer) or you could have a very nice stroll in the woods (just over the road). Walk to the Horniman. You could go for some Tapas. It's actually not a bad spot and, as far as I know there has been a pub on that site for hundreds of years, its shown on Rocques map of London in 1746 as The Green Man. So a bit of a landmark, lets get it open again!

[spider69]

EDOldie Wrote:

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> There's a bus. Oh, actually there are several,

> 185, 176, 197, P13, P4. You could walk to Forest

> Hill (Overground) or even East Dulwich if you

> fancied the walk. As you say 10/15 mins, not long

> for a Dulwich Hamlet fan. You can walk to Dulwich

> Park and the Picture Gallery and the Village (but

> there's nowhere to go for a beer) or you could

> have a very nice stroll in the woods (just over

> the road). Walk to the Horniman. You could go for

> some Tapas. It's actually not a bad spot and, as

> far as I know there has been a pub on that site

> for hundreds of years, its shown on Rocques map of

> London in 1746 as The Green Man. So a bit of a

> landmark, lets get it open again!

Let it reopen as a normal local pub much as I remember it in th 1970's where you went for a pint and the children played in the garden. Unlike today where kids have to run around in the bar.

It was a local not the "lets be seen expensive bars" that seem to be the norm in ED pricing thr local plebs out

Showing my age

[Jah Lush]

What EDOldie said. Absolutely spot on.