Cycling and the ED street grid

[Earl Aelfheah]

sillywoman Wrote:

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> What's 'the grid'?

Just meant the grid of narrow streets that make up a large part of East Dulwich - I was thinking the area between Lordship Lane and CPR.

[newtoedf]

Some of you might be interested in taking part in some research that Dr Rachel Aldred is carrying out at University of Westminster. It is called the near miss project and they are asking people who cycle to fill in an online diary during one day between 20th October and 2nd November, recording all their cycle trips on that day and any near misses or similar that they experience. They hope to use this (alongside other methods) to find out how often these incidents happen, what causes them, and the impacts they have.

You can sign up here: https://nearmiss.typeform.com/to/fvylyd

and there's more information about the project here: http://nearmiss.bike/

[jimbo1964]

That's really interesting. Speaking as someone who has had a near death experience (from being hit by a vehicle, Near misses that are very scary and depressingly frequent. The other day for instance a driver was coming head on at me (at speed) as he wanted to drive his car over a middle of the road speed bump.

[Jeremy]

Every time we get a thread about stupid cyclists, the militant cyclist brigade chip in with "but what about bad drivers? They're worse!"

Don't sink to their level, salsaboy...

[newboots]

How anyone can argue with that op, I don't know.

[Jeremy]

newboots Wrote:

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> How anyone can argue with that op, I don't know.

I don't think anybody seriously is.

[rodneybewes]

newboots Wrote:

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> How anyone can argue with that op, I don't know.

Trolling pure and simple. You can tell instantly by the tone.

[bawdy-nan]

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/17/bikes-cars-cyclists-clever-protest-riga-latvia?CMP=twt_gu

Not sure we'd all fit "in the grid" but we might, at least, get a bit of room

[mynamehere]

I'm entirely quoting Donnachadh McCarthy on Southwark Plans (not) for protected segregated cycling

Spineless, cashless, protectionless.....

Southwark Council has produced a new cycling "strategy" for "CONsultation".

I confess to almost never having read such a vacuous gooey pile of nothingness in years!! 8-(

Their main innovation is to propose slashing bike routes through parks, creating unnecessary friction, instead of actually installing segregated cycle lanes on the roads.

They have drawn a marker through the centre of the borough and called it the southwark spine - it is a cycle "route" not a protected lane.

There is no map of all the LCN network and no mention of all the routes that have removed with latest Peckham & Nunhead Plan.

There is no proposal for protected left hand turns and a tiny pot of money. ( the money for the entire borough (they do not say how many years the budget is for) which is about a fifth of what they are spending at the moment on tarting up Camberwell Green) and enough to pay for one busy junction to be done properly...

At this rate it will be the year 2,500 before Southwark kids can get the right to cycle as safely as Dutch kids. grrrrr

The battle goes on -

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s49335/Appendix%201%20Cycling%20strategy.pdf

[bawdy-nan]

I read it and was quite excited by it ... what am i missing? Maybe its that the aspirational tone doesn't add up to practical benefits?

[bawdy-nan]

This, for example, is quite radical, I think:

"Car ownership and use has continued to decrease in Southwark. The dramatic fall in motor traffic levels in the last

decade provides the opportunity to reallocate road space to cycling, including along the Principal Road Network, and walking. TfL's analysis of cycling potential in Southwark showed that 47 per cent of trips made by motorised vehicles could be cycled.

Reallocate road space: There is an opportunity to reallocate parts of the carriageway to cycling. This will involve some difficult decisions but we will be mindful of congestion impacts, particularly for buses. This should not have an impact on the walking network and any improvements to the cycling network will need to take into account pedestrian use, and the dual need to create a cohesive, direct, safe, attractive, comfortable and easy to navigate walking environment.

[mynamehere]

The reallocation has to be SEGREGATED, protected space and cyclists must not be put into direct conflict with pedestrians through parks: that will end in tears and abuse

[bawdy-nan]

Well, yes, I would agree with that, but this is a consultation document and on page 32 it cites examples of (lightly) segregated routes in London as well as Copenhagen as examples of best practice.

It is true, however, that the best practice examples aren't referred to in the examples of what might happen in Southwark. ie not concrete examples of segregated cycle lanes etc.

[Belle]

Agree OP with your points. I'd say some of them apply to motorists treatment of other motorists actually - hate when drivers put everyone at risk just to basically move one car in front and save, maybe, a second?

And I'd add that when a driver is doing the right thing by a cyclist as you outlined , it would be helpful if other drivers did not toot/ get all aggressive because we are not overtaking the cyclist...

[Nigello]

Pedestrians and cyclists do not mix, even in parks, unless the lanes are completely separate and not just a lined-off section of a walkway.

Today in SE22 I saw two lots of magazinified parents - daddy up front with baby/toddler in a basket, mummy at the back and the other kid riding in between - on the pavement.

Having a child cycle with you doesn't allow you to break the law. (They sped off too quickly before I could tell them.)

[Belle]

Not sure how that's relevant to the op?! Cycling on pavements is a big grey area, I read something on this recently. But the issue here is motorists and their treatment if cyclists...

[Nigello]

Read back, Belle: the conversation went off on a tack, to which I responded.

[Belle]

Fair enough, guilty of skimming :)

[DadOf4]

agree with a lot of what is said here. I driv,cycle & walk - locally and in town and it AMAZES me the disregard for cyclists that many drivers have.

What people just dont get is: what would be a scraped wing mirror or a bumper-scratch with another car, could mean death to a cyclist.

I used to average a near miss about once a week (I dont commute regularly anymore) . Looking at mobile phones was the biggest cause of this.

I find it incredible (although not surprising) the lack of vision of TFL and LA's on this. Cycling works for congestion, pollution and obesity......why are we still pi55ing around with half baked cycle schemes. But it will only work if cyclists are safe.

It needs something VERY bold and radical. Dedicated streets, a solid netowrk of routes (that are not just painted roads with cars on them) and very tough policing of bad driving (and cycling)

I know many countries use a system of "presumed liability" when it comes to cyclists and pededtrians (http://www.roadpeace.org/change/fair_compensation/stricter_liability/)

I did read a while back (although cant find the source right now) that this resulted in a massive reduction in cyclists deaths in France.

[Belle]

I thought the Norman Foster idea was inspired:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyCycle_%28proposed_transport_project%29

[Earl Aelfheah]

The simplest answer is to close off a small number of back streets to bikes only, in order to create the cycle 'spine'. Of course it would take real political leadership (those on the roads effected would cry blue murder).

[mynamehere]

Please bring your families to this demonstration on November 15th

PROGRAMME

12 noon ? Gather at Bedford Square, WC1B

1:00pm ? Procession leaves

2:00pm ? Die-in & rally at Marble Arch:

? placing the coffin

? wreath laying

? die-in

? rally

3:00pm ? End.

People are being hit by drivers of cars and buses every single day in london. They are dying and having life changing accidents. It is almost instantaneously preventable if we tweak design and modify habits. For some unfathomable reason TFL and a range of politicians would rather set us at each others throats than spend allocated budgets to build great infrastructure.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-cyclist-crushed-under-tipper-truck-at-ludgate-circus-dies-in-hospital-9806200.html

http://stopthekilling.org.uk

THE 10 DEMANDS

1. Stop the Killing of Children

? set up a national, multi-billion pound programme to convert residential communities across Britain into living-street Home Zones and abolish dangerous rat-runs.

2. Stop the Killing of Pedestrians

? establish a national programme to fund pedestrianisation of our city and town centres, including the nation?s high-street, Oxford Street.

3. Stop the Killing of Pensioners from excessive speed

? introduce and enforce speed limit of 20 mph on all urban roads, 40 mph on rural roads/lanes and 60 mph on all other trunk roads.

4. Stop the Killing of Cyclists

? invest ?15 billion in a National Segregated Cycle Network over the next 5 years.

5. Stop the Killing by HGVs

? ban trucks with blind spots by making safety equipment mandatory and strictly enforce current truck-safety regulations, to reduce levels of illegally dangerous trucks down from estimated 30% to less than 1%.

6. Stop the Killing without liability

? introduce a presumed civil liability law on behalf of vehicular traffic when they kill or seriously injure vulnerable road-users, where there is no evidence blaming the victim.

7. Stop the Killing from Lung, Heart and other Diseases caused by vehicular pollutants

? make it mandatory for particulate filters that meet latest EU emission standards to be fitted to all existing buses, lorries and taxis.

8. Stop the Killing at Junctions

? introduce pedestrian crossing times long enough for elderly disabled to cross. Legalise filtered junction crossings by cyclists with strict legal priority for pedestrians and carry out urgent programme of physically protected left-hand turns for cyclists.

9. Stop the Killing from Climate Crisis caused by CO2 emissions

? all transport fuels to be from truly environmentally-sustainable, renewable sources within 10 years.

10. Focus on Life!

? Transport governance must make safety and quality of life the top priority. Reform all council transport departments, the Department of Transport and Transport for London into Cycling, Walking and Transport Departments with formal pedestrian and cyclist representation.

[DulvilleRes]

As a cyclist I find most drivers are pretty OK. This has changed a lot down the years from my cycle dispatch days back in 1542, when literally I'd have cars try and ram me off the road, because they thought I shouldn't be there.

There is now just a minority of drivers - and in my experience 4 x 4 drivers aren't any worse than anyone else - who just don't seem to get that a bike is a road vehicle, same as car, and not some weird form of moving pedestrian. Like all big social changes in London, I think it is simply a matter of time before that minority largely disappears.

[wulfhound]

The way to sort out the Spine is mostly not segregation, but getting rid of rat runs. A few strategically placed bollards and fire gates along Crystal Palace Road and Eynella Road, for example, to keep through traffic on Barry Road and Lordship Lane where it belongs; rework the Bellenden Road / Lyndhurst Way gyratory so that one side is "mostly cars" and the other is "mostly bikes" (basically return the whole thing two-way, with bollards under one or other of the bridges and more where the "bike" road meets Peckham Road). Once you get north of Peckham Rd it's quiet roads all the way to Burgess Park anyway.

Will be interesting to see whether the council is brave enough to try something like that. I'd love to see them prove Donnachadh wrong.

[louloulabelle]

James Barber are the police going to enforce the rules of the road to the many Dulwich Cyclists that do not stop at Zebra crossings, red lights, do not indicate or even look around them when changing direction, mount the pavement when it suits them to aid their journey, ride without lights etc in dim/dark conditions, ride two/three abreast when not appropriate......and so on.