How do you percieve East Dulwich?

[SteveT]

Because they became uncompetetive in this price challenged area.

M&S will go the same route as C&A in my opinion as they cannot compete on price against Asda and Tesco.

[Keef]

It was always very busy around there, but as Louisa says, it was 88-93, not good times financially.

[Louisa]

It isnt about market forces Brendan, if you look at the surrounding areas the demographics have probably increased in favour of the likes of such stores. Bare in mind Rye Lane has considerable space (unlike LL) to accomodate these big stores and they certainly would be profitable. I think the problem is a lot deeper and associated with who owns the lease/freehold on these shops or who has bought them in recent years and seems to favour certain types of shops over others.

Louisa.

[Mikecg]

One thing people are neglecting to realise is we are now living in a age where internet shopping is hurting the high street, I for one prerfer to use the net to by most of my stuff, cloths technocrap and music, its much more cost affective this way. and I think that this is where the problem lies and is part of the reason for the decline of the highstreet, however I am a geezer, and dont really enjoy shopping as much as the ladies do.

[boomerang]

wow - loved reading these posts and can agree with a lot of whats been said - the cliches of ED and Peckham are pretty much spot on and I can totally relate to them - I personally hate Peckham and think its a right dump! (I sometimes have to hold my nose - specially in the summer - when on the bus going thru Rye Lane!) The only time I walk on Rye Lane is to buy my Black chelsea boots for work every 6 months @ ?10 a pair they're a bargain (jeez, cant believe I just wrote that) but hey - I guess there are some good points - As for ED, I on occasions frequent the pubs/bars and GBK, its nice to get wasted locally occasionally and stumble home - which I admit is a garden flat that backs on to that cemetery people hark on about and I admit has a weird smell about it..... I agree when you cross that boundary at the end of Rye Lane and enter ED its like two different worlds...

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Bring back Charlie Drake.

[Michael Palaeologus]

This is silly frankly. BHS, M&S and their ilk left Peckham because their customers left Peckham. No customers, no business, end of.

Whinging about the good old days is pointless. The real problem time was during the transition from high street chains to local shops (the late 80s and early 90s), then there were many empty shops. Nowadays Peckham is vibrant. Many folks may not choose to shop in them, but clearly many do and these are the relatively new populations of Peckham. There may be some that feel that these new populations shouldnt be there, but it would probably be best if such views are kept private for the sake of common decency.

It is quite amazing that in these days of a globalised recession, people are carping about a shopping centre that has made a successfull transition to local shops for local people; even if they do sell edible giant snails and dried .... things.

[????]

Southwark bringing in parking restricions was really helpful in halting the decline of Rye Lane....er, not....so remember that next time the geniuses in the council start trawling for revenue

[Michael Palaeologus]

The one way system in Peckham was a piece of spectacular f@ckwittedness

[Louisa]

MP, i'm sorry but I just dont buy that argument at all. The population for such stores is still in the surrounding areas and this is not an issue about 'new populations' as you put it. Brixton and Lewisham are very ethnic diverse areas and they maintain many of these shops to the present day, and the population structure is almost identical to Peckham. I would not describe transition from huge department stores to dirty rat infested shops as some sort of positive cultural revolution for local people. If anything, the long standing residents are left completely isolated, new residents are left confused and only a small percentage of the population feel that they have a reason to go shopping in Peckham. Just look at the majority of posts on here about the place, it is all so completely uneccessary.

Louisa.

[Nicholas]

East Dulwich, known as nappy valley,and bugaboo village. Dream on its a nice place to live but its no village.

In my opinion house/flat prices well inflated. Some nice gastro pubs,shops etc.

I cant help thinking that the few locals left from the past might just feel a little intimidated by the way it has changed.

Its feels like its being cloned and a bit pretentious.

[Nicholas]

Hi Louisa,

many moons ago we had M&S and quite a posh department store called Jones & Higgins.can anybody remember that?

Also it had Ravel shoes plus some nice mens boutiques. My how its changed.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Lewisham, Brixton (!?), Bromley - all are on major transport links - trains, major A-roads and tubes. Peckham isnt, it isnt a destination for external shoppers because there are easier places to get to. If there were enough top-end local shoppers to keep the top-end shops open, they would be. There arent.

Personally I think that Peckham has been let down by local and national Politicians in many ways, but in transport planning in particular. It does seem that every potential transport improvement to Peckham has been strangled before birth. I dont deny that Peckham is a dump, not surprising as the place has had no investment to generate economic regeneration, a library, a sports centre and a windswept "square" do not make jobs or local wealth.

Cynically, if the good people of Peckham had done what the good people of Brixton did 20 years ago, i.e. rose up and set fire to the place, then Peckham would have received the same investment that Brixton subsequently benefitted from. As it is, Peckham is a backwater that is a safe Labour seat and as such, will not attract any public sector investment, while the Olympic Boroughs bleed us dry to fund a two week Circus in 2012.

[The man in the shack]

Nicholas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> East Dulwich, known as nappy valley,and bugaboo

> village. Dream on its a nice place to live but its

> no village.

>

> In my opinion house/flat prices well inflated.

> Some nice gastro pubs,shops etc.

>

> I cant help thinking that the few locals left from

> the past might just feel a little intimidated by

> the way it has changed.

Intimidated?

No. I don?t think so. The idea that in "2000 and just before I moved in" East Dulwich was really different seems a common delusion among recent arrivals. However it is a delusion. East Dulwich has been changing continuously for a lot longer than the thirty five plus years I have lived here. There was a cinema here once, so the "glory days" were long before the arrival of a mere supermarket. Most of the old residents, those here when we moved in, have died over the years. This happens eventually to everybody. There is nothing new about yuppies, for want of a better word, moving into East Dulwich. This is a trend that has been going on for at least twenty years. Old people die, younger people, yuppies, buy their house and move in, remodel the house and breed. These people are totally innocuous and really easy to ignore. It is not as if I have ever found myself confronted by a yuppy. Their shops, which they seem so proud of, I just walk past. Generally I would only notice a change if it affected something I used. The loss of the car spares shop near the library is regrettable, but I was indifferent to most of what was on Lordship Lane / Northcross Road before what is there now so I remain indifferent. East Dulwich has always been a nice place to live, the addition of a few hundred bourgeois buggy pushers is really neither here nor there.

On the subject of Peckham, I?m sure the many thousands of shoppers thronging Rye Lane today would not be interested in your opinions, even if they knew you existed and thought you were worth caring about. Peckham is really larger than just Rye Lane. There are many quite large, expensive looking houses just of Rye lane that would not look out of place in an English country village.

[Mikecg]

I went on a smallish pub crawl allong LL yesterday afternoon as my wife took the kids up to see one of her friends, and I must admit that I rather enjoyed myself, not once was I accosted to hand over any money, neither did I feel intimidated by any of the punters, and not once did I witness any sign of an altercation breaking out between fellow drinkers, It was really quite civilized, I grew up in Croydon, you know the home of drink fueld violence. so it was quite refreshing to sink 6 of the best without fear of any of the above.:)-D

[Nicholas]

Some Interesting posts. Some I agree with,some is utter nonsence. Yes ED is a nice safe place to live work etc.

I agree its nice to be able to down a few pints,without fear.

Only a few years ago EDT and Bishop were not so pleasant places to frequent. But I feel that a lot of the old crowd have been driven out which is a shame,I feel the place has lost a bit character.

Because ED is mainly 30's 40's thats the main reason the pubs are mainly trouble free.

I think we should all remember what we are surrounded by. But I still think some are a bit pretentious.

But I think we should all be proud of our I hope close comunity.

[Townleygreen]

I hesitate to join the discussion over Peckham in a thread supposedly on E Dulwich, but to my mind the reason for the flight of those chain stores like M&S from Rye Lane was the fact that fewer punters were willing to go there any more once the area became perceived as dangerous, back in the late 80s/90s.

At one time, people from surrounding areas (Dulwich Village, etc) would have shopped there at Jones & Higgins etc, but somehow the area became (perhaps unfairly) classified as crime-ridden, and these stores, once their customers started to go elsewhere, would have had little choice but to close down.

To some extent, the same thing happened to Brixton in the 80s - who remembers the department store (even I have forgotten its name)that used to be there? Brixton had a lot of money spent on it, following the riots, and the shopping decline was halted.

There has been some regeneration in Peckham, but clearly the crucial people have not (yet!) been attacted back there. Believe me, if M&S and co thought they could make money in Peckham, they'd be in there like a shot.

[Apollo]

The man in the shack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nicholas Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > East Dulwich, known as nappy valley,and bugaboo

> > village. Dream on its a nice place to live but

> its

> > no village.

> On the subject of Peckham, I?m sure the many

> thousands of shoppers thronging Rye Lane today

> would not be interested in your opinions, even if

> they knew you existed and thought you were worth

> caring about. Peckham is really larger than just

> Rye Lane. There are many quite large, expensive

> looking houses just of Rye lane that would not

> look out of place in an English country village.

So well put. This topic always make me smile.

Let's not forget that the area around Rye Lane (talking residential streets, not the shopping area) is actually a conservation area; because it has many streets of note. The only conservation area in East Dulwich is The Gardens (I'm sure I will be told if I'm wrong).

Personally I would rate living somewhere like Lyndhurst Way, Lyndhurst Grove, Choumert Road, Choumert Square, Holly Grove, Talfourd Road etc. etc., pretty high versus the characterless 'identi-kit' rows and rows of small 'identi-kit' Victorian boxes of ED. I've always appreciated the individuality and originality of residents who live in this area of SE15, compared to ED'ers; who, it seems, like to look and live like everyone else around them (and are happy to pay laughable inflated prices to do so). Faux plantation shutters... need I say more?

I've lived in this bit of SE15 (by choice over ED may I add) for 12 years, and personally enjoy the friendly, creative and eclectic mix, good transport links, better nursery and primary education, and lack of general and unqualified smugness. East Dulwich is not, and never will be Barnes.

Thanks to the postings on this Forum for making me laugh so much.

[macroban]

Intimidated by imported hot air? Don't think so.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Morley's is the gaffe in Brixton.

[Huguenot]

I always get confused by Louisa's 'nostalgic' posts, as I can't work out what she actually wants.

In this latest round it seems that she feels the height of grandeur is those identikit (and now failed) stores that cloned themselves across all the suburban UK towns in the mid-eighties - Dixon's, WHSmith, M&S etc. I may have misunderstood, because in other threads she glamourises sleepy Devon villages and a unique local flavour.

Go on Louisa, give us what you do think is right. Paint us a picture of the perfect Lordship Lane. Try and do it without describing what you don't want. If you catch yourself criticising something, delete it and start again with "I really would like to see..." ;-)

ED was without doubt my favourite London suburb, precisely because there were so few casual visitors. I recognised my fellow citizens and traders, and they recognised me. It gave me a feeling of inclusivity. I didn't differentiate between blue collar and white collar neighbours, and was never under the impression that they discriminated against me.

ED in the pre-boom years seemed much more tribal and rife with petty prejudice, and tribal behaviour is all about defining your identity by those who are excluded from your community. It's easy to see how social drift, economic growth and personal wealth have loosened the 'blitz' mentality that kept tight-knit communities together.

It would be pointless to blame this on 'blow-in' yuppies, because yuppies are about 'new money': working class people made good. These guys actually were your neighbours, but they bought an Audi TT and a middle class accent when their house-price soared.

Yuppies are resented by the working class because they rejected their colleagues in pursuit of an ego-centric social agenda and a better lifestyle. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and all that.

I think that the world is a better place when pursuing a liberal agenda, so ED seems a much better place as it becomes more liberal. Liberalism is about the freedom for individuals to choose, so it's no surprise that LL offers exactly that. Iceland sits comfortably next to Cookwank shops, extending variety and options for local residents.

Often the argument becomes polarised because customers of one type of shop want to see more of the same style. In fact it's just this balanced state of conflict, this happy medium, which makes LL such an attractive and successful experience.

[Nicholas]

I agree i'm not sure what Louisa wants. Nevertheless I agree there are some stunning period properties around, the ones in Camberwell Grove area,and lets not forget our lovely Peckham. In its day it was the place,and parts still are.

I still see the area as cloned,and if we are not careful it could be a place without much character,mainly the same type of people and shops which I think is a bit boring. Be honest, how long do you think shops like Iceland will last? In the lane we all know most want an M&S or a Waitrose; its all about snobbery im afraid to say.

I would be interested to know how many of you have lived in the area for more then 15years.

[HonaloochieB]

Today I percieve ED as a magical sparkly white land of wonder and awe.

And lead swingers.

[Nicholas]

Ed is a great place to live work play.

If most of the shops don't represent the locals as was said.

Thats what I Mean when I said cloned and pretentious.

Another point how can these so called gift shops survive,especially in this climite.

If the good people of Dul want these quant shops they need to put there internet shopping away,and get shopping local and expect to pay higher prices. Im all for local support.

[lgyaajh]

Does anyone else want to air thier views on East Dulwich? Some rough questions are at the start of the thread.