How do you percieve East Dulwich?

[Louisa]

Peckham was always the Bromley or Lewisham kind of traditional high street with all the big brand names alongside family owned businesses like Holdrens, Kennedys and Jones and Higgins. The likes of White Stuff and JoJoMamanBebb or whatever it's called are purely shops aimed at overindulgent yummys with nothing better to spend the money on.

Keef I know you too remember just how great a shopping centre Peckham was, right up until the 1980's decline. I honestly think many people who have moved into the area recently see Peckham as if it has always been a horrible place, but I can assure you it most certainly was not. I think the collpase that has taken place down there is not reflective of all high street's across the country, but more to do with the absolute shift in demographics in the area in such a short space of time and the fact that government and local council have stood by and let the area turn to rubbish.

Honk it may be a packed high street if you fancy buying wigs and yams, but it is not reflective of the high street I once knew which was very clean and a decent place to shop.

Louisa.

[lgyaajh]

Please can we bring the discussion back to East Dulwich and the original questions?

Cheers Alex

[honk]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Peckham was always the Bromley or Lewisham kind of

> traditional high street with all the big brand

> names alongside family owned businesses like

> Holdrens, Kennedys and Jones and Higgins. The

> likes of White Stuff and JoJoMamanBebb or whatever

> it's called are purely shops aimed at

> overindulgent yummys with nothing better to spend

> the money on.

>

> Keef I know you too remember just how great a

> shopping centre Peckham was, right up until the

> 1980's decline. I honestly think many people who

> have moved into the area recently see Peckham as

> if it has always been a horrible place, but I can

> assure you it most certainly was not. I think the

> collpase that has taken place down there is not

> reflective of all high street's across the

> country, but more to do with the absolute shift in

> demographics in the area in such a short space of

> time and the fact that government and local

> council have stood by and let the area turn to

> rubbish.

>

> Honk it may be a packed high street if you fancy

> buying wigs and yams, but it is not reflective of

> the high street I once knew which was very clean

> and a decent place to shop.

>

> Louisa.

So are you saying you're harking after a time that will never come back. Have you seena British high street of late? There's nothing there.

Last time I looked Peckham sold a lot more than wigs and yams. There appear to be tens of butchers, fishmongers, why, almost a mile of something there, which is usually pretty bustling. Maybe they're the 'wrong' kinds of shop for you? Your sneering tone suggests so.

A large proportion of the shops are independents, employing local people, many of whom spend their money in the area, helping the local economy. I agree, it sounds awful.

[Louisa]

honk, Rye Lane and Peckham in general is not reflective of the local area at all. Rye Lane once served a huge area, not just Peckham but the likes of ED going east to Lewisham and west to Brixton. It truly was a significant shopping centre. Half of those disgusting s*itty butchers and fishmongers you refer to are indeed a health hazard and if only Southwark could do the right thing and get environmental standards out most would be closed down immediately. Call it what you will, it is NOT a place you really want to go and spend time, almost everyone I have spoken to agrees, not just "the wrong shops for me", but the wrong shops for most people I would imagine. It is no longer a shopping centre aimed at everyone, it is a dirty grotty place where only cheap and cheerful health hazard food shops wish to open up and sell things that should have been condemned for human consumption. Sneering? I think not, just being realistic about the situation. I bet you dont do your shopping down there do you? It's about as "bustling" as a busy sewage works. Good luck going down there and getting your weekly shop!

Louisa.

[Keef]

Anyway, lets try and get back to perceptions of ED for the sake of this project. Come on folks, answer the questions.

[honk]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> honk, Rye Lane and Peckham in general is not

> reflective of the local area at all. Rye Lane once

> served a huge area, not just Peckham but the likes

> of ED going east to Lewisham and west to Brixton.

> It truly was a significant shopping centre. Half

> of those disgusting s*itty butchers and

> fishmongers you refer to are indeed a health

> hazard and if only Southwark could do the right

> thing and get environmental standards out most

> would be closed down immediately. Call it what you

> will, it is NOT a place you really want to go and

> spend time, almost everyone I have spoken to

> agrees, not just "the wrong shops for me", but the

> wrong shops for most people I would imagine. It is

> no longer a shopping centre aimed at everyone, it

> is a dirty grotty place where only cheap and

> cheerful health hazard food shops wish to open up

> and sell things that should have been condemned

> for human consumption. Sneering? I think not, just

> being realistic about the situation. I bet you

> dont do your shopping down there do you? It's

> about as "bustling" as a busy sewage works. Good

> luck going down there and getting your weekly

> shop!

>

> Louisa.

To stay on topic, this is how I perceive East Dulwich - as a borough peppered with narrow-minded and blinkered types such as yourself snorting disgustedly over at 'lesser' areas.

Shops with poor standards tend to close in my experience - and on a road with something like 15 butchers alone I would say that trade is pretty competitive (and thriving, to sustain this many).

As Rye Lane is on my route home I shop there daily, and spend about a third of what I would do if I shopped in a 'safe' veg shop like SMBS.

And as a bonus, the air isn't a cacophony of self-important snorting.

[Louisa]

You obviously lack any sort of true understanding of the local area at all. Perhaps you need it spelling out.

I have always lived in Peckham and ED area, I am in no way snorting at the area in which I grew up in, far from it. I am just appauled at what it has become. I am not a snob, I just think Peckham no longer has anything to offer the majority of people who live in the local area. I would to an extent say the same of ED, it certainly isnt a place I would choose to shop let me tell you! I just think the extremes of Peckham and ED, something that was once never apparant, has isolated a huge swaith of the local population. Dont give me all the rubbish about "shops with poor standards close", that is not the case at all. Many of those shops along Rye Lane are open because Southwark amongst others choose to do nothing about it. I would rather you didnt call me narrow minded either, I am just someone who knows the area well and is a bit p*ssed off with the way it has gone. It has nothing to offer me anymore, and certainly nothing to offer most people I know who live in both Peckham and ED of all races and backgrounds. People like you are the reason dumps like that are allowed to thrive. You really do infuriate me.

Louisa.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

One of the saddest sights for me was going back to my Homeland in The Walworth Road and seeing "Kennedys" English Sausages Shop close then I realised the Camberwell one closed and the last remaining Peckham one too in Rye Lane, itself.

In fact they closed them all, probably 20-odd in total.

Turns out that they realised that there was no longer the demand for these traditional British/English Sausages in South London where they had been based for around 100 years...

They do say you should never re-visit old haunts...(6)

[dulwichmum]

I worked in Peckham for over a decade, and in many ways it has improved. All of the building and redevelopment around the Lister and Gloucester Grove Estates are without question an improvement. That was well and truely a no-go area at night for even ambulances, GPs and midwives just ten years ago. Peckham Pulse and the library and have been a great local resource, it is a shame, but the library always reminds me of Damilola Taylor and knife crime. The cinema is very good value, but the car park feels like a death trap.

I must say, again in Peckham's favour, Morrison's is just super. It is scarey in the car park - people seem to have no idea how to park at all, but the food is terrific quality and substantially cheaper than Sainsbury's (shhh). I have stopped buying groceries on Ocado and send my housekeeper to Morrisons every Friday morning (gasp). *Whispers* Bags of apples, grapes, pears etc are all 99 p and the shopping works out approximately a third cheaper. They have a great selection of wines, beers, deli and bakery. With no bonus on the cards this year, a girl has had to make cuts to the budget (sniff).

If any of you quote me on this - I shall simply deny it.

Bobojamon does not cater for the Yummy Mummy, it is cheap to middle market, only a tad more expensive then Adams - generally good value, and to be honest, a useful addition to our beloved high street. Try to keep up with a tiny baby growing out of vests so quickly... It is now on Lordship Lane due to the fact that the demographics in East Dulwich have changed so substantially over the last decade. White Stuff sell good quality casual clothes, again, they cater well for the local market.

East Dulwich has changed substantially over the last 15 years, but it is now lively and buzzing. There are lots of young families, professional people live there who did not before. Mark, Sean M and Michael P live there and I love it.

[Louisa]

DM I hate to disagree, but what a load of crap.

Morrisons is one of the VERY few exceptions to the overall rule in Peckham. So much so that it was actually considered as one of the stores that would be sold off following the Safeway buyout, can you imagine what could have gone in it's place? A wig hypermarket perhaps?

Jojomanapoppycock or whatever it is known as is considerably more expensive than the likes of adams or mothercare. You only need to look on the website and compare like for like prices, it is a true joke. White Stuff is an complete waste of time too, January SALE, what friggin SALE? I've been in numerous times and rboken out in a sweat at the price tags. The demographics have changed I agree, but not to the extent that in both Peckham and ED the majority of shops now only represent some of the local community as opposed to all of it.

ED is certainly more lively, but that is in no way attributed to the mediocre overpriced gift shops that have swamped LL in the last 10 years or so. It is probably more to do with the fact that now the local characters stand out of the crowd somewhat more than they did this very day 10 years ago!!

Louisa.

[Lizziedjango]

Well said Louisa. I agree with most of what you say, especially:-

"the mediocre overpriced gift shops that have swamped LL in the last 10 years."

Had to laugh at "what could have gone in it's (Morrison's) place? A wig hypermarket perhaps?". LOL. :)

[Mick Mac]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DM I hate to disagree, but what a load of crap.

Thats a great line Louisa.

[dulwichmum]

OK then, you win Louisa, it is vile. I am just glad I don't live as close to Peckham as you ;-).

[Louisa]

oh you cow! ;-)

Louisa.

[dulwichmum]

Louisa sweetie, the word you were looking for was "bitch":)-D.

[Louisa]

DM I could never call you a bitch, you dont have the claws for it my love :)).

Louisa.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Shops in Peckham do sell giant edible snails and I have not, as yet, seen anything similar in ED. So Peckham does have the edge on that front.

I rather like the pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap shops in Peckham and have spent may a happy hour wandering round them wondering what I am looking at and what I would do with it in my kitchen and why isnt it actually rehydrated and grazing in a zoo?

Again ED loses out on the exotic dried animal parts front, but Peckham does provide ample opportunity for those with such specialist tastes and it is but a short walk away.

ED does food, drink and sparkley things. There is a body of opinion that would like to see us follow the North Korean model of social engineering and environmental planning. That is just silly.

Nunhead provides cemetaries and a place to dump asbestos.

Dulwich Village allows space for people to empty their dogs in peace.

Camberwell provides buses and former sausage shops.

Forest Hill provides comic relief.

A sensible planning mix surely?

- Edited for the sake of completeness -

[????]

So just exactly what does Camberwell do?

[absentminded]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nunhead provides cemetaries and a place to dump

> asbestos.

>

Someone did actually dump asbestos outside my flat in Nunhead (before I moved to East Dulwich, which is much nicer btw).

The council had to remove the rubbish bin to avoid it happening again.....

[dulwichmum]

Oh Michael darling, how very accurate! Camberwell is a great place to stock up on authentic Chinese foods and provisions and

get assaulted by those with mental health issues!

[honk]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

>

> ED does food, drink and sparkley things.

Ah, the three pillars of aspirational middle-class life.

As long as my house is full of Conran fairy lights, Maldon Sea Salt and a ?42 Peugeot pepper grinder nothing can hurt me.

[Brendan]

And just exactly how constructive are flippant comment?s like, ??three pillars of aspirational middle-class life.??

Everybody knows that there are more than three. What about frilly things, fluffy things, ironic fashion and understated yet cool live entertainment?

Sheesh. I ask you?

[Michael Palaeologus]

Wise words Brenda. We should not forget things of a frilly and fluffy nature, that would never do.

Hotdogs as well, apparently. Makes you proud.

Camberwell has alot of buses, to its credit.

[honk]

you forgot 'The entire Apple range' ; )

[Keef]

I'd agree with DM's take on several parts of Peckham, as a teenager, there were places you just didn't want to go, and The North Peckham Estate was known as Front Line. These places are definitely nicer and safer. With regards to Rye Lane however, I am firmly in Louisa's corner.