Grove tavern to reopen. Fact or fiction.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Drive through fast food gaff?

[spark67]

But you are troll Louisa simples your goal is to provoke, and it works...also I won't give it a rest if I see something that should be challenged ..that's what happens on forums, If you can't make your case with out being sneering or insulting (get a life for example) then expect to be challenged. Pubs do make money from quizzes, they happen not that often, so there are plenty of nights you can nurse your stout in the corner sniping at the world. And they have been around for a long time, (I went to a few as a student in the 80s) just because you don't like them ...as with lots of things you don't like,(certain restaurants bars, peole etc ) you just get insulting and vile.

You can be rest assured I won't bother you again as it's boring and repetitive ( like your posts )You can even have the last sneering word if you like...go for it.

Back on topic I Just think a lot of the chain pubs like young's stole the taverns thunder, the Dulwich woodhouse is rammed in the summer on a sunday (well it was last time I went last year) shame to lose such a lovely big garden, not many of those about these days. I went to the Florence last week for the first time, really nice, garden wasn't huge though & half was taken over by the room built out there near the outside bar, I think it was used for somewhere kids could run about away from the adults :)

If they are building flats there I wouldn't like to be living in one on that corner of that junction, bad enough when I had a flat opposite the church near there, I could feel every lorry rumbling pass.

[himzle]

So having checked back on your forum over the last year and a bit, and having scoured the internet for more information on this site, it's slightly annoying to see that my continuous e-mails to the Dulwich Estate have gone unread.

I've written various e-mails as I am quite keen on taking over this site, on either a leasehold or freehold basis, and re-opening it as a public house with food.

Having read through this thread it seems that dream will have to remain so. I look forward to driving past another eye-sore along the south-circ(!)

[steveo]

Write a letter or telephone them for an appointment, or doorstep them

[Jah Lush]

What Steveo said. Don't give up on your dream.

[Jessicas429]

himzle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So having checked back on your forum over the last

> year and a bit, and having scoured the internet

> for more information on this site, it's slightly

> annoying to see that my continuous e-mails to the

> Dulwich Estate have gone unread.

>

> I've written various e-mails as I am quite keen on

> taking over this site, on either a leasehold or

> freehold basis, and re-opening it as a public

> house with food.

>

> Having read through this thread it seems that

> dream will have to remain so. I look forward to

> driving past another eye-sore along the

> south-

I will come and work there for free if you manage to do so. Currently such an ugly sight to look at every day for us who live this end of lordship lane. Would love to see the building out to good use (pub would be especially good as slim pickings this way).

[S]

It's a real shame the building has been empty for so long and been such an eyesore. I've just emailed the councillors, Tessa Jowell and the Dulwich Estate to get more information and suggested some kind of meeting with residents. Doubt we'll get that but I'll let you know what they say anyway! Sounds like they are being turned into flats but wanted to try, just in case.

[keekybreeks]

I cant ever see this reopening as a viable pub based business- its a big slab of building in a crappy area with zero footfall. I wouldnt want to hoy any cash at this, you may as well take your money and fly to vegas for a week- probabaly better odds at a return

[Jeremy]

To be fair... it is a crappy location. 1KM to the nearest high street, perched on a very busy intersection of the south circular.

[Bic Basher]

I wouldn't define an area which is next to Dulwich Park and Sydenham Hill Woods as a "crappy area"

Personally I'm surprised the retail area along there hasn't got a Tesco Express or Sainsburys Local, although those stores are around a 10 min walk from The Grove in either direction.

[Louisa]

Of course in its day it served it's purpose as a stop over for weary travellers and drovers heading to and from London, hence why it's there. Things built up around it to its detriment and this is where we find ourselves in 2015. A shame, but that's progress.

Louisa.

[keekybreeks]

Im sure of there was a cat/ hells chance of their being viable business there, it would not be locked down for as long as it has.

even the Cherry tree is a a more attractive venue than the grove as it stands.running a pub is risky enough these days, without the external issues that have killed this place off

as for saying it has historical interest cos of richard burton, he was an alchoholic, probabaly every drinking establishment in London during thje 60/70s had him visit

[steveo]

Byron before Burton

Both mad, bad and dangerous to know

"Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication."

[Jeremy]

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wouldn't define an area which is next to Dulwich

> Park and Sydenham Hill Woods as a "crappy area"

Perfectly reasonable place to live (if you don't mind a hike to the train station).

Crappy location for a pub. Especially for a big pub.

[Louisa]

As Jeremy says, it's all about location. Footfall is key to any business, especially a fragile and competitive one such as a pub/restaurant. Believe me, if I had the money I would buy it because I hate seeing it as it stands, but that's just the horrible reality.

Louisa.

[ed_pete]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To be fair... it is a crappy location. 1KM to the

> nearest high street, perched on a very busy

> intersection of the south circular.

Someone has taken a chance on the Tulse Hill Hotel which appears to be getting favourable publicity and it hardly located in the most salubrious location being at the junction of the South Circ and Norwood Road. The Grove could be similar if the investment was there.

http://www.harpersbazaar.co.uk/travel/hotel-reviews/tulse-hill-hotel

[Jeremy]

But it's just round the corner from a station, and the pubs/restaurants/shops of Tulse hill...

[keekybreeks]

the Grove is the SE22 equivelent of one of those old oubs pubs in Aston, brum- now surrounded by traffic - a truly terrible destination

[ruffers]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bic Basher Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I wouldn't define an area which is next to

> Dulwich

> > Park and Sydenham Hill Woods as a "crappy area"

>

> Perfectly reasonable place to live (if you don't

> mind a hike to the train station).

>

> Crappy location for a pub. Especially for a big

> pub.

Not sure how 0.7 of a mile can be described as a hike?

[S]

The location is problematic but then the Plough does well further down - and the Grove is sandwiched between East Dulwich and Forest Hill, a lot of people priced out of those areas live on this stretch.

There's a lot of people living round there who'd like a nice pub that is only a short walk away. It's only 15 minutes walk from Forest Hill Station and probably a lot of people who walk in the woods on a regular basis would use it.

I heard back from the Dulwich Estate this morning - they said "Once we have firm plans we will then arrange a meeting with local residents and businesses to discuss our thoughts. I expect this to be in June / July."

I did ask if we could have a meeting before the plans were firmed up but have not yet heard back.

As a charity, do they have a duty to consult on things like this?

[Jeremy]

Sorry. A charming stroll, taking you along 1km of one of SE London's premier 'A' roads, with sufficient gradient to feel that you've earned that morning croissant.

[christgill]

The Grove has a bus stop right outside with services to/from Forest Hill, Catford/Lewisham, Sydenham, Penge, Croydon, Peckham, East Dulwich, and points north. The 176 is a 24 hour service. It also has a very large car park. To claim that The Grove is somehow "stranded" at the corner of the A205 and A2216 seems a bit disingenuous.

[Siduhe]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To be fair... it is a crappy location. 1KM to the

> nearest high street, perched on a very busy

> intersection of the south circular.

> Sorry. A charming stroll, taking you along 1km of

> one of SE London's premier 'A' roads, with

> sufficient gradient to feel that you've earned

> that morning croissant.

It depends what you mean by location - for sure the actual pub being at the intersection of two roads isn't charming or picturesque, but I wouldn't describe it as a crappy location either (not least because it's where I live). Our end of Lordship Lane has plenty of local residents (Wood Vale, Underhill Road etc) and a much-used parade of shops. It may not be as fancy as other parts of Lordship Lane, I accept, but that doesn't mean a pub couldn't work there if it was pitched right - Wetherspoons would clean up there IMO (although not be the sort of tenant the Dulwich Estate is maybe looking for). I know the market is moving against keeping it as a pub and flats seem inevitable, but I can't help but think how much better the area could be if there was a pub which could act as more of a focal point for the community. Crappy location or not.

It's also less five minute walk from the Fireman's Alley entrance to Dulwich Park.

Edited to add the right quote

[BrandNewGuy]

keekybreeks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the Grove is the SE22 equivelent of one of those

> old oubs pubs in Aston, brum- now surrounded by

> traffic - a truly terrible destination

Oi, there's nothing wrong with the Barton Arms! ;-)

[S]

I agree with Siduhe and Christgill. I grew up round there, and my parents still live there - wouldn't say it was it was crappy area, more that it's ripe for development!

I'm going to carry on contacting the councillors and Dulwich Estate staff and trustees about the issue. If people are interested in getting involved with some kind of campaign (in the loosest sense probably) could you email me on [email protected]? At the very least I could keep you updated with what the Dulwich Estate says.