Petition re Dulwich Hospital site

[LondonMix]

I think you have to identify a potential site as part of the application process.

[Fuschia]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> I think you have to identify a potential site as

> part of the application process.

You do.

Section H ? Premises

Finding a suitable site is an essential part of opening a free school. As part of preparing your application you should investigate potential sites for your school and tell us about them in your application.

I am just itching to see the Harris nunhead application, info about the publicity, location of supporting signatures, and suggested site.

[Fuschia]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/359541/Wave_7_free_schools_basic_need_final.pdf

[LondonMix]

Its only logical. I mean what would be the point of applying to open a school to serve a local community if there was no way to actually do so.

[Belle]

Well, in fairness, that's part of what the free school system is for isn't it? for people to get together and say, look there is a need here and we would like to do it this way. It's the EFA's job to find the site.

In the letter Harris wrote to the parent steering group which has been posted earlier in the thread they indicated that the hospital site wasn't their preference: "The EFA has told us that it is considering part of the Dulwich Hospital site for the primary school and advised us that we should keep our options open with regards to this, even though we still hope that a site closer to Nunhead can be found. I wanted to reassure you that we are conscious this is also the site you would like for the new secondary free school in East Dulwich"

Either way, it's up to DfE/EFA to get the siting right. And in my view, squeezing any primary - no matter who it's meant to serve - onto that site along with a health centre AND a secondary, is madness. And compromises all three.

To be clear: I'm not a fan of how this 'Nunhead' primary idea has evolved, but I think that the main issue here is what the DfE /EFA do next.

[LondonMix]

I agree with that though I don't think the DfE or the EFA act independently of the sponsor when assessing the suitability of site locations even post approval of the application.

The EFA's job is to buy the site but even at the first hurdle in the application process, identifying suitable sites rests with the sponsor / applicant as part of the viability assessment. I don't believe the EFA simply forces sponsors to take sites the sponsor tells them are not suitable.

[LondonMix]

Also, for those asking for more information on how Southwark calculate their projections and what the source data is please see the answer I received below:

"it's multifaceted, using birth records, GP registration info, nurseries for primaries, children's centre data etc. For secondaries, a major factor is number of children attending primary schools in a given area. Geographic movement is also looked at eg they know more families are staying in the area than moving away at the end of primary than a few years ago."

[James Barber]

Hi DulwichBorn&BRed,

I'm sorry you feel that.

We have been totally transparent throughout the campaign in emails to supporters of new priamry schools, on this forum, blogs, facebook and twitter and well as the local press and Lib Dem leaflets. Despite our best efforts I'm sorry we didn't make this sufficiently clear for you. I'm not sure what else we could have done.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Could you show me where it stated in the original petition that we were signing for a Nunhead school to be opened in Dulwich and that both would be by Harris ?

[bawdy-nan]

Apropos of not very much really, this free school system is a load of old rubbish really. Instead of planning for need its all petitions and wrangling and loudest, best placed voices winning. Rubbish.

[intexasatthe moment]

Absolutely bawdy -nan. This current debacle certainly highlights that . Bring back ILEA .

[Otta]

"Bring back ILEA"

Haha, I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Like 30 years ago.

[first mate]

One does get the sense that some are, for reasons that may not be totally transparent, totally hand in glove with Harris and will try to push this through by any rationale possible, spurious or otherwise, despite it being clear that it is not wanted by the local electorate. It is as though some know better what is best for us all.

My concern is for the health centre which seems to have become a secondary concern in the fight for school space. Given the proximity of the centre to at least one very large school, what will be the demographic that centre serves, primarily? With local GP practices seemingly getting worse as well as struggling to meet demand, what services will this health centre be offering, how many doctors, how many nurses, what facilities and so on? None of this is clear- we are only told it will be 'fab' and 'super-duper'. All the energy seems to go into promoting Harris.

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

The replacement health facility although needing only 7,000-9,000m2 will have significantly more services and occupied space than the current situation. They wouldnt be asking to have 100 car parking spaces otherwise.

So we're very clear we want a proper repalcment that has far mroe locally provided health services.

It would be easy to go with the flow and sign this petition. But that would be selling out on the 250+ supporters of two Harris primary schools. When we have a primary school place crisis in 2016/17 pointing my finger at Southwark Council. I'm sorry, doing this just isn't me.

Why Harris. Well in 2012 they were the ONLY school provider that would consider opening new free schools in the wider East Dulwich area. Since then others have become attracted when we showed we could make local free schools happen. So yes I feel loyalty to the free school bids I've initiated with my colleagues and helped lead/run the campaigns.

[bawdy-nan]

James, I think one of the problems here is that people who signed the original petition for a new primary school don't believe that they were being asked to sign for up for TWO Harris schools.

You wrote: "But that would be selling out on the 250+ supporters of two Harris primary schools"

Whether you intend to or not the impression that you're giving of one of fudge and obfuscation on this matter and it has a bit of a stinky feel about it.

[mrs.lotte]

I have seen no evidence of a primary place crisis in 2016, quite the opposite.

James have you noticed that not a single person has posted in support of your contention that there should be yet another primary school. If you think there is a crisis how does this square with your opposition to the extension of Ivydale?

On the other hand many of the people you seek to represent plainly feel strongly that another primary runs the risk of compromising a secondary school that is needed. You say that you are loyal to the campaign for a secondary school and I don't doubt that but that really isn't coming across as your priority right now.

I have yet to hear any cogent argument as to how a petition to David Laws, who has suggested in correspondence that a Primary and secondary could co exist on the hospital site, making it plain that local feeling is against that is inappropriate or runs the risk that he would say ya boo sucks well you won't get a school at all.

[BrandNewGuy]

first mate Wrote:

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> My concern is for the health centre which seems to

> have become a secondary concern in the fight for

> school space.

Hear, hear. And from a health perspective, as well as simply a quality of life one, if there's a school there with outside space and/or sports space, can that be for the use of the community too? It's not just the private schools who have an obligation to their locality. As an old-ish hippie, I think schools should be more like a local learning resource hub, to be used by the community as a whole, and not just by an age-defined cohort at particular hours. But I'm probably asking for the moon...

[LondonMix]

The main issue that needs to be addressed locally is the secondary school shortage and nothing should impinge upon the secondary school's facilities even one iota. This appears to be the universal sentiment of your constituents James. Site sharing is not something the community believes is of benefit or desirable as they want to maximize the facilities and flexibility the new secondary school will have.

Moreover, the ED Harris primary school campaign was not for two primary schools any more than the campaign for the secondary school (given its high numbers of signatories) is for multiple secondary schools. A high level of support for a single application is not a legal or a moral mandate to create multiple schools in an area despite your assertions to the contrary.

More importantly, the analysis shows that the Dulwich area will already have a two form surplus in 2016. Developing another primary school in Dulwich is totally unnecessary and in all likelihood would be very harmful to the financial viability of our existing very popular local primary schools.

The creation of the second Harris primary in Dulwich is also in violation of the rules and regulations that govern the creation of free schools. Legally schools should not be created if they will generate a surplus unless there are failing schools in the area and even then explicit parental support above and beyond what is required for a normal application would be required. We have no failing schools and there is no parental support, both of which are legal requirements.

Lastly, the second Harris school was explicitly approved to address a potential shortfall in Nunhead. It is not viable for primary age pupils in Nunhead to commute to the Dulwich hospital site. Even so, the spare capacity that will exist by 2016 both in Dulwich and in Bellenden can more than accommodate the potential shortfall of places in Nunhead without developing a new school in Dulwich if a suitable site in Nunhead cannot be found and pupils are indeed forced to commute. The expansion of Ivydale has significantly reduced the risk that any such shortfall will materialize anyhow (it would have to be the upper most bounds of the projected pupil figures). How the school for Nunhead was ever approved is questionable in and of itself as no campaign was conducted and I hope the enquiries that Tessa Jowell is making in respect of this sheds some light on the very unorthodox manner that primary application was made.

The legal framework for free schools makes sense but if our government institutions and academy sponsors do not adhere to those rules, the result is waste and chaos that can only be countered through campaigning and petitions which is a disgrace.

[samstopit]

Brand new guy, as a steering group member I can assure you the intention is to share sports facilities with the community. I can only speak for the Habs campaign of course.

[first mate]

James, as you know very well, the current hospital service has been decimated. It used to offer a range of specialist services including x-ray, remedial care for the elderly and many other things. Will the new centre really be offering all this and more?

Additionally, your loyalty to a cause should be secondary to listening to what the public want. Did 250 people really sign up, in full knowledge, to two Harris primary schools in East Dulwich or were they hoodwinked into it, thinking they were only signing up in support of one?

As another poster has stated this feels all a bit stinky.

[LondonMix]

Many of you have expressed your disapproval regarding the primary school plans for the Dulwich Hospital site.

In addition to signing the petition linked to in the OP's post at the beginning of the thread, I would urge all of you who feel strongly about this to take the time to write to David Law who ultimately can influence what happens.

Tessa is collecting emails and letters sent by this Friday as part of the case she is mounting against this proposal.

More information is provided at this link from the Family Room! Tomorrow is the deadline.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1405452

[savage]

Any journalists about?

[mariababe]

James - "But that would be selling out on the 250+ supporters of two Harris primary"

Seriously James????

Signing a petition asking for a secondary school and a health centre ONLY on a small piece of land will not stop a primary school opening somewhere else...again parents did not sign up for 2.

By your skewed logic this would mean we should have 3 secondaries based on 700+ signatures.....

Pretty sure South London press are on it

[Beryl]

As someone new to the thread - and having read all of it - can someone please tell me who is James Barber? And how much are Harris paying him?

[bawdy-nan]

Beryl Wrote:

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> As someone new to the thread - and having read all

> of it - can someone please tell me who is James

> Barber? And how much are Harris paying him?

James Barber is as local Lib Dem councillor who has been campaigning and galvanising support for new schools in the area (as well as a lot of other schemes and plans). He was instrumental is generating support for the new secondary school campaign helping to bring together local parents who now coordinate the campaign independently of James. I have no political or other affiliations with James Barber but he has, I think, proven himself to be an extraordinarily active representative of the local community - working very hard for the people he represents.

I don't really understand his advocacy of Harris, but, on this forum he has explained it as arising from the fact that, initially, they were the only people who would partner up to push for more schools.

On this issue, the need for another Harris primary in ED, especially when it will compromise the much needed secondary school and health centre, I wholeheartedly disagree with him.