Petition re Dulwich Hospital site

[intexasatthe moment]

I really don't know how many times I need to say this but the decision to build on MOL is not made by Southwark .

They can apply ( as they have done in the past to extend school buildings on the Homestall site ) but it would clearly be silly to apply when the application will be so out of line with the national policy .

http://planningguidance.planningportal.gov.uk/blog/guidance/open-space-sports-and-recreation-facilities-public-rights-of-way-and-local-green-space/local-green-space-designation/

As I said before James - please do share these many cases where schools have built on MOL . Applications to extend are permitted if there is sufficient space . But this is not the same as building an entire school . Especially since the Homestall MOL is a considerably smaller area than that of the MOL of some of the private schools in Southwark .

[ed_pete]

Are you sure about this ? Last year Southwark agreed to building of Portakabin on the Dulwich Sports Ground in Turney Road to house a Nursery and a Sport Club. Dulwich Sports Ground is MOL. The meeting was on 23/7/13 if you want to check.

[intexasatthe moment]

Ed - as I understand it is the scale of the proposal to build a school on MOL that would require the application to be approved by the secretary of state and takes it out of Southwark's remit .

[henryb]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I really don't know how many times I need to say

> this but the decision to build on MOL is not made

> by Southwark .

> They can apply ( as they have done in the past to

> extend school buildings on the Homestall site )

> but it would clearly be silly to apply when the

> application will be so out of line with the

> national policy .

Could you explain how this primary school in Islington was approved?

http://www.penoyreprasad.com/projects/ashmount-primary-school-crouch-hill-community-park/

[TE44]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashmount_Primary_School

henryb Gove had the power to appropriate.

[Fuschia]

'As the site is Metropolitan Open Land, the footprint of the new building did not exceed what had been demolished; no MOL was lost. There is a slight increase in the area of open land available for the park compared to previously; this is possible because the new building does not occupy any more space than the old, although not in exactly the same location, i.e. the "footprint" of the buildings on the site is no greater than before, and some additional land adjoining the park to the south has been added to it. The care taken to minimise the impact of the building operations on the site, both in terms of the wildlife, and protection of the deciduous woodland which is left unharmed, was required by the planning conditions attached to the project by the London Borough of Islington, some of which arose in turn from conditions imposed by the Mayor of London'

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Walk#Crouch_Hill_Park_Project

It is the case that above a certain size (1000 sq m?) discretion doesn't lie with a local council

Anyway, Harris have said they don't want to build on the land at Harris girls, haven't they?

That's all a bit of a red herring.

[henryb]

Fuschia Wrote:

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> 'As the site is Metropolitan Open Land, the

> footprint of the new building did not exceed what

> had been demolished; no MOL was lost.

The full quote is:

"The free standing Bowlers' Nursery building, which was never visible from the walk, was also demolished. As the site is Metropolitan Open Land, the footprint of the new building did not exceed what had been demolished; no MOL was lost. "

So I guess they are referring to the new Bowlers' Nursery building rather than the new building for the Ashmount school which is the other side of the park walk way.

> It is the case that above a certain size (1000 sq

> m?) discretion doesn't lie with a local council

Yes by the sounds of it any application would need to approved by the Mayors office and reviewed by the Secretary of State - but that is not going to happen if no application is made in the first place.

My point is: regardless of the process if Islington can get approval for a new school building on MOL then so, in principle, could Southwark.

> Anyway, Harris have said they don't want to build

> on the land at Harris girls, haven't they?

Have they? Looking back over the various threads there seems to be conflicting information about this. I guess if they are working on the assumption that can use the hospital site then it isn't surprising that they would say there isn't room at the Girl's School.

[Belle]

There's a copy somewhere on the thread of the letter Harris sent to the parent steering group for the Haberdashers' bid, it clarifies their position on this - I'll see if I can find it.

[henryb]

Thanks Belle.

[samstopit]

The text of the letter from Harris to the parent steering group is copied below. Dated June 2014.

Dear Catherine,

I wanted to write to you direct to clarify our position and thinking on the Dulwich Hospital site.

For context, and as you know, the Department for Education has accepted our application to open a new primary school for Nunhead families. Subject to a building being found, the school will open in September 2015 and aim to provide exceptional education for its children. In doing so, it will follow in the tradition of our primary Free School in Peckham which is highly oversubscribed and was recently judged as ?outstanding? by Ofsted.

In an ideal world, a site in Nunhead would be found and secured by the Education Funding Agency (EFA) which is the government body responsible for finding sites for new schools. While they have not yet located a site, we are very much open to any suitable locations that may come up closer to Nunhead. We will also be working with Southwark to see if they can help to find a site.

Like many prospective primary parents, our preferred outcome would have been to build on the grounds of Harris Girls? Academy ? but this would raise substantial planning issues because the land there is classified as Metropolitan Open Land and given the same level of protection as the green belt. In addition, of course, Southwark is currently asking its secondary schools whether they can expand to help meet some of the expected future shortfall of places.

The EFA has told us that it is considering part of the Dulwich Hospital site for the primary school and advised us that we should keep our options open with regards to this, even though we still hope that a site closer to Nunhead can be found. I wanted to reassure you that we are conscious this is also the site you would like for the new secondary free school in East Dulwich.

If the new primary in Nunhead is built on part of the Dulwich Hospital site, and assuming at least one of the two proposed applications for a new secondary school is granted, we would be very happy if it is decided that a secondary school should be located next to the primary. We have contacted the Haberdashers' Aske's Federation, with whom we have a long established working relationship, and the Charter School to say this and to offer any support we can.

Just to be absolutely clear, we have no intention of creating a new all-through or secondary school in the area and cannot see any reason why two separate schools next door to each other could not thrive as neighbours.

The EFA is still in the process of exploring the options for our site. It is, of course, entirely possible that none of the three possible new schools will be able to use the Dulwich Hospital site. However, given the uncertainty over the past few days, we wanted to make contact with you and set out our position. Whilst we aren?t the decision makers in this process, I hope that I have been able to give you some reassurance and to make clear that we are happy to help raise with the EFA as part of our discussions how a separate secondary school could be fitted there too. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

If you feel it would be helpful to share this letter with the other local families in your campaign, please feel free to do so.

Yours sincerely

Chris Randall Director New Developments

[samstopit]

Tessa Jowell has written a letter to the CEO of the Harris Federation:

http://www.tessajowell.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CHAP0101901140379010101310.pdf

[first mate]

A good letter and the last comment about Harris' lack of contact with Southwark re DHC site really does give a sense of the cosy relationship between Harris and the Coalition.

I also wonder about their seeming intactability on the it's either the hospital site or MOL land. If the need is North of the borough then why not look in that direction?

[James Barber]

I'm surprised by Tessa's letter.

The Chief executive of Southwark after consulting with the relevant director and Southwark Labour I assume issued a letter January 2013 saying they would bend planning rules and allow a planning application for a Harris primary school on the Dulwich Hospital site. Normally a site has to have one planning application.

If anyopne is interested I'll dig it out and post it here.

Then I receive an email from a worried parent 100m from Ivydale who has been told by Southwark Council officials that in 2016 even with a new Ivydale school that due to siblings policy they stand little chance of getting into Ivydale. They were also told they should consider applying for school some of which are further than the Dulwich Hospital site from where they live.

This is the same Southwark Council telling everyone their is no need for another primary school in Nunhead. and that the Dulwich Hospital site is too far away from Nunhead.

You could not make this up.

[first mate]

So just to be clear, are you saying that a primary school needs to be built on DCH site to serve Nunhead and further afield?

[bonaome]

James wants a Harris primary on that site, as far as it's possible to tell.

[first mate]

My point is more that there seems to be an overwhelming view that what ED needs is a good secondary school with adequate space. It is felt that inclusion of another, primary school will compromise the quality of the secondary.

The arguments in favour of the Harris Primary seem to be that they were first out of the traps and built their case on the basis of need in Nunhead, not ED, but without access to a suitable site in the catchment area they used to make their case. Casting around for a suitable site they alighted on DCH land and with the apparent support of the EFA staked their claim.

Therefore a school may be built on a prime site in East Dulwich to provide schooling for an alleged shortfall of primary places in Nunhead while compromising/jeopardising the future of a desperately needed secondary school in East Dulwich itself. This is madness surely?

[Andrew1011]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My point is more that there seems to be an

> overwhelming view that what ED needs is a good

> secondary school with adequate space. It is felt

> that inclusion of another, primary school will

> compromise the quality of the secondary.

>

> The arguments in favour of the Harris Primary seem

> to be that they were first out of the traps and

> built their case on the basis of need in Nunhead,

> not ED, but without access to a suitable site in

> the catchment area they used to make their case.

> Casting around for a suitable site they alighted

> on DCH land and with the apparent support of the

> EFA staked their claim.

>

> Therefore a school may be built on a prime site in

> East Dulwich to provide schooling for an alleged

> shortfall of primary places in Nunhead while

> compromising/jeopardising the future of a

> desperately needed secondary school in East

> Dulwich itself. This is madness surely?

I absolutely agree.

[samstopit]

A bit of good news this morning - the Haberdashers Federation has heard that they are through to the next stage with the Department of Education and will begin meetings with DfE in January.

The Habs application is to open a highly regarded, non-faith, co-ed secondary school to open in September 2016. Everything is on track for this goal.

Final decision from DfE should be made in mid-March 2015.

[bonaome]

Do you know where it might open? I believe the NHS can't release any land for building on until some point in 2017.

[samstopit]

It will open in temporary accommodation for the first couple of years. In terms of exactly where, a few options are being considered.

[bonaome]

Could you say where? I have signed the forms supporting the bid, but now I can't see how the school will be an option for my daughter. She'd need a place in Sept 2017 - but the school will then still be some years away from being able to move out of temporary accommodation.

[samstopit]

Habs are already in conversation with the local authority and their own surveyors about where they could put temporary accommodation for the school. There are a number of possible local, relevant options. If approved they would also have the full support and resources of the EFA to come up with and finance a solution that minimises the impact on pupils from Sept 16 onwards.

Habs have an in-house project team with proven expertise in designing, building and delivering temporary school accommodation which is fit for the purpose of delivering an excellent education from day one. They have previously leased and used high-end modular units to create a mini campus, as well as reconfiguring their existing school estate and other premises. They are confident that if approved they will have a school ready for 2016.

I'm afraid I can't give more details than this at the moment but admissions for the new school would of course relate to the school's permanent site, not the temporary location if that were to be different.

[BrandNewGuy]

samstopit Wrote:

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> A bit of good news this morning - the Haberdashers

> Federation has heard that they are through to the

> next stage with the Department of Education and

> will begin meetings with DfE in January.

Ditto the Charter School's proposal it seems:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1442312

[samstopit]

Yes, both bids are through to the next stage.

[James Barber]

This is good news for both bids. Hopefully different sites for each will be found!

The total site is 28,300m2.

NHS are suggesting they need 7,000-9,000m2 for their future needs but that this includes 100 car parking spaces. Hopefully something more sensible around parking can be agreed and they can build to end of the scale.

Secondary school would ideally be 19,500m2 (as per Habs) - 10,045m2 of floor space so a ground and 3 storey building rather than 2 storey would have a land foot print of 2,550m2 leaving 16,950m2 for out door space, etc and reducing the total space required to 18,600m2.

Primary school would ideally be 3,000m2. 2,072m2 of floor space - 700m2 of land.

This would leave a gap both allowing for secondary schoo, primary school and new health facilities of 300m2.

I think it perfectly feasible to house all three on this site without much imagination.

So the issue is one of whether any of them aren't needed or needed on a smaller scale. All will have further consultation.

My biggest fear is that any change of government will see the health facilities go back onto the slower burner for another 20 years of delay scuppering any new school on the site.