What's happening to old ED police station?

[Nigello]

I really don't think the minds of four or five year olds are ready for the alleged inspiration a school building designed to an aesthetic so lusted after by EDF types. They want it to be clean, safe, secure, well-lit and with good facilities and teachers. The adults - of a certain kind, at least - want the added beauty, not the children.

[LondonMix]

Everyone appreciates beauty. Kids aren't immune from that at all.

However, functional space with good light and space is most important for a comfortable learning environment.

[first mate]

A well designed building should be able to provide a pleasing aesthetic as well as functionality- isn't that what an architect is for.

[Louisa]

It's a school building. Crammed into a tight space. Inspirational aesthetics is pretty much out of the window.

Louisa.

[James Barber]

I popped along to the exhibiton yesterday at Christ Church. It was open 3-9pm. Hopefully some of the people highlighting problems with the proposals had a chance to also pop along.

It is clearly designed to be functional. The head teacher is happy with the design. Parents of children already there on the temporary site told me they were happy with the design.

As others have said it won't win a Stirling price.

In an ideal world it would be on a bigger site. So keeping the set-back from Lordship Lane is useful and completly understand why the set-back of the current building on Whateley Road is being removed.

Talking to the Project Manager no building works or demolitions will occur until after they have planning permission. All the design and funding is organised by the Educational Finance Agency who clearly are not inspired sponsors of great architecture. I think this a shame.

One thing I did like. I asked about how modular the design is. It is now proposed to be steel framed which will cause less disruption to the area while building than originally proposed poured concrete. This will also make possible additions in the future.

I'll alert people when the planning application is submitted so formal objections and support can be submitted and put into the mix.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's a really basic form - block work boxes, rendered to hide their cheap construction. The coloured render (the only thing close to any adornment) actually makes the thing more ugly. Would be mildly better kept white.

[LondonMix]

first mate Wrote:

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> A well designed building should be able to provide

> a pleasing aesthetic as well as functionality-

> isn't that what an architect is for.

That's the essence of design and I would hope despite the constraints someone could come up with something along those lines.

[BrandNewGuy]

I'm happy we no longer have the absurd grandiosity and extravagance of Labour's ?55bn "Building Schools for the Future" scheme ? a boon to architects, building consortia and those raking in cash for decades to come courtesy of PFI.

[first mate]

A number of weeks ago someone- sorry cannot remember who- posted a really insightful Guardian piece about developers and the very real threats they pose.

I think it was penguin68 who commented that the latest Harris shenanigans on the Hospital site has the feel of a Tesco-style land grab. Harris' relentless march and expansion across London seems to be about getting as much available land as possible under the Harris brand, whether the community wants that or not, and then throwing up a recognisably Harris building for as little cost as possible. i don't really know how this is meant to increase choice or education options.

[James Barber]

hi first mate,

It doesn't sound like you went to the public exhibition yesterday.

Harris do not get to design or lead or spec. this school.

It will be delivered by the Education Finance Agency for Harris to then run. Practically the head teacher is happy with how he can make the school work really well. But the proposed design is dull.

So I think it a bit unfair to criticise Harris for something they don't get to design or deliver. They would I suspect be far happier in the driving seat to make this all happen.

I personally prefer the outlook the Haberdashers' people have achieved with their new primary school.

[singalto]

I did go to the exhibition about this school as I had questions for them. I don't think some aspects have really been thought through.

There is no parking provision at all for the staff as they are 'going to be encouraged to use public transport or cycle.' I mentioned the chaos from parents dropping off and collecting as I am a teacher and see how it works at those schools: parents park in drive ways, double park etc. The project manager told me that the parents have been encouraged to walk, use the bus etc and I was told that the parents of the children currently on the temporary site are happy with these plans. As the current site is by the Harris Girls East Dulwich, I don't see how the catchment area can be the same as for the Lordship Lane site.

The building is going to be 4 floors tall with 400 children once it is fully functioning. I am very uneasy about the whole project.

[grabot]

The render is ugly, it looks as though it is screaming for attention; maybe it is missing its spiritual home on a Medway retail park. Perhaps a rejigged colour scheme or ideally some use of wood cladding would tone it down.

[StraferJack]

does it tie in with this?

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/apr/14/michael-gove-standardised-school-architecture

[Earl Aelfheah]

grabot Wrote:

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> maybe it is missing its spiritual home on a Medway retail park.

This is a good analogy. Really do dislike the coloured render.

[BeeGee]

Setting aside aesthetics and the question of space inside the proposed building, I'm unclear on how the EFA think that this design will practically work with the transport restrictions.

I expected the school entrance to be on Whateley Road - if only for safety given how narrow the pavement is on Lordship Lane. By the time the school is a few years old, there will be hundreds of kids who will struggle to enter and leave each weekday.

I cannot see TfL not objecting to this when the planning application goes in because there is already a busy bus stop right outside. The pick up / drop off congestion is a real factor unless the bus stop is moved further up the Lane but children leaving on foot and parents waiting to collect would still be safer exiting on Whateley.

If the design was modified to put the main entrance on that side, then that would help a lot and you would think that extra pelican crossings would also be needed, along with extending the 20mph limit further up the Lane.

[intexasatthe moment]

The plans show main ehtrances for children on both whateley and Landcroft . I imagine the entrance on LL will be for visitors ,staff etc .

[Longshanks]

As a parent of a child who has started school this year at Harris Primary I have to say my interest is, and probably will always be that my son is happy and developing well. In comparison, the proposed colour of the render fails to register.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Of course you care more for you child than the colour of render. That doesn't mean that we should not be concerned for the quality of design of a prominent new building. Personally I don't think there is any excuse for such poor and careless design. You can still work to a tight budget, yet be thoughtful about aesthetics.

[Nigello]

You can still work to a tight budget, yet be thoughtful about aesthetics. <<<< Solipsistic claptrap.

An eight year old, unless s/he is precocious and of a prodigious design sensibility, really does not care about fineries of the building they're learning in (unless, of course, that structure is unsafe, dilapidated and uncared for, which the new school - despite its functional looks - will not be).

Stop thinking about yourselves and how important design and aesthetics are to your life and think of the education, safety and development of the child. I love things of beauty, but I don't want the baby of good education to be thrown out with the bath waters of design-fetishism.

Make the school strong, secure, well-lit and reasonably attractive and then fill it with great teachers to instruct enthusiastic children of parents committed to their education and bin the aesthetic-anxiety, please.

[Earl Aelfheah]

So it doesn't matter what a building looks like. We should allow anything to be built as long as it's safe and functional? What a depressing world you'd have us all live in.

[intexasatthe moment]

Sounds like an argument for building warehouses - they're strong, secure, well-lit and reasonably attractive . And the kids won't notice will they ?

"An eight year old, unless s/he is precocious and of a prodigious design sensibility" clap trap . And arrogant . And sounding like an opinion based on prejudice and lack of experience with children.

"the baby of good education to be thrown out with the bath waters of design-fetishism" clap trap

and what exactly is insincere /wrong about saying "You can still work to a tight budget, yet be thoughtful about aesthetics" ? And it's certainly not solipsistic.

[first mate]

There are many that think design and aesthetics do have an impact on children, even very young children. Moreover, therte is a view that schools should not be plonked into communities, rather the school is an extension of the community http://www.archdaily.com/213438/community-oriented-architecture-in-schools-how-extroverted-design-can-impact-learning-and-change-the-world/

[Medley]

I see no conflict between buildings being good to use and good to look at.

Indeed the latter has an impact on the former, surely.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

My five years old is definitely aware of his environment and really appreciates a good building . In fact he will discuss at lengths the details of various buildings that catches his eye so it's absolutely incorrect to dismiss children as not being aware of their school surroundings .

I recall what my primary school looked like , it was a huge Victorian building with toilets outside and cast iron radiators with huge halls and parquet flooring throughout , isn't it usually imprinted on most peoples minds, their primary schools ?

[LondonMix]

Medley Wrote:

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> I see no conflict between buildings being good to

> use and good to look at.

>

> Indeed the latter has an impact on the former,

> surely.

Exactly. Its obvious that everyone wants the building to be functional but that some believe it should be more than just that. The built environment has a huge impact on people pyschologically and I don't think children are immune from that. In fact, in my experience, children care more, not less, than the average adult. And while the school is to be used by children, it will be seen by the entire community so everyone who has to look at it should get to express their view.

Hopefully, we'll end up with something better than if there were no consultation process.