What's happening to old ED police station?

[katgod]

Interested in the bus stop - does Harris have power to move bus stops?

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

I've been a member of planning committees since first elected.

The demise of the local Dulwich Community Council planning function means such local decisions aren't presented to a local committee of local councillors.

It was replaced by Planning Committee sub-committee A and B - two seperate committees. The conditions for a planning application going to a planning committee was changed from any three people objecting to five different planning objections agreed by the head of planning and chair of planning. A hugely higher hurdle.

So we had local planning committee oversight and Southwark Labour took this away.

hi redjam,

I agree I don't believe it will be as detrimental or dramatic as some have suggested on this thread.

Hi katgod,

No they don't. I'm not expecting this bus stop to move. Although some have suggested swapping it with the pelican crossing I see no money for this to take place and also I'm not clear it would be a good idea.

[MarkT]

James,

the Council's "Statement of Community Involvement" (SCI) specifies Community Councils as Decision Makers for planning applications. It also specifies the 3 objector threshold. The SCI states that it is a statutory document that must be followed. The SCI was subject to full statutory consultation as a component of the planning policy framework and examined in detail by HM Inspector. Why does the Council not obey the SCI?

Mark

[Earl Aelfheah]

redjam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I live very close to the old police station and

> near where the new cinema will be, and I honestly

> can't see what the fuss is about. Yes, it's a bit

> tricky to park near my house on a Saturday but not

> impossible, and I think the benefits to the

> community of a new primary school and cinema far

> outweigh any potential minor parking

> inconvenience.

>

> My kids are at Heber, incidentally, and it's true

> that relatively few parents drive - the vast

> majority walk. Not sure what the teachers do but

> I've seen several on local buses/trains and if

> they do drive then their cars get absorbed into

> the quiet side streets round there quite easily.

> If the teachers find it tricky to park nearby,

> they'll take public transport, simple as that.

> People will do whatever's easiest and parking is a

> part of that decision.

>

> Just doesn't seem a huge problem to me, and I

> think we're losing sight of the fact that both

> things are potentially very good for the local

> area. In the case of the school, it would be

> madness to lose any more playground just to

> provide parking spaces, so I don't really see what

> the alternative is anyway.

Yep, totally agree with this.

[Caroline_S]

katgod Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interested in the bus stop - does Harris have

> power to move bus stops?

The member of the team who talked me through the plans at the public consultation presentation last week said that the bus stop would remain in place.

[James Barber]

The planning application has been submitted for the two form entry permanenet primary school - http://planningonline.southwark.gov.uk/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=9557974

[sillywoman]

I'm very glad that ED is get another much needed primary. I remember thinking 'how short sighted' when they sold off the one of Northcross rd. What a waste that was.

[James Barber]

Hi sillywoman,

That was in the early 1980's. But yes, selling any school site looks very rash now.

[Otta]

I went to that primary school, it was tiny and had to use a separate site for a couple of year groups and dining hall.

I am confused about the Police Station, are you saying that Harris are only now applying for planning for the school which they have already started (on another site)? Surely these things should be agreed in advance?!?!?

[first mate]

Otta,

If I have it right, Harris, once given the go ahead by Southwark planning are definitely building on the Police station site to create Harris ED primary 1, however they also want to build a second primary school on the Dulwich Hospital site and have had their application okayed by the EFA (I think). I don't think the hospital site land has even been sold yet so we are some way off from planning details.

The second Harris primary school is contentious because, according to most, it is not needed or wanted in ED and was actually submitted on the basis of need in Nunhead (this 'need' is now also disputed). Additionally, the application for ED Harris 2 may affect the viability of a much needed secondary school also being touted for the hospital site. Most argue that a good secondary school will need the space currently allocated for the unwanted Harris 2. The case is being fought by secondary school suppporters, disinterested residents in ED and a variety of MP's. A few councillors, however, continue to support Harris 2, for reasons that are not especially clear.

[James Barber]

Hi Otta,

Yes, that's what's happening. This isn't Harris Federation but the Education Funding Agency causing these timescales. But as with the Harris temporary primary school site planning application this planning application is likely to be delayed by the planning process in Southwark.

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

Yes, for the 1st Harris Primary school.

2nd Harrsi primary school.

When asking whether people supporter a local Harris primary school so many with children of the correct age who could use such a school that sufficient support for more than two primary schoolsd was received. A proportion of them from Peckham Rye ward - many would call east East Dulwich/Nunhead. Equally a number came from south East Dulwich as well as the obvious core area of East Dulwich. Ideally a location would have been found in eastern ED but no site has been found. So a clear need in terms of families supporting these new schools was found. And the EFA agreed in principle to fund two Harris primary schools.

WRT the hospital site. It is a debateable point whether sufficient space for both the secondary school I initiated with Rosie could be built on the hospital site as well as a primary school. Ideally they would be on two different sites. Second best they share facilities on the hopsital site. Even both being built completely seperately the new secondary school could have more land that the Charter School or Haberdasher's Aske's Hatcham College each currently have.

So the key is whether a further second Harris primary school is needed.

Which means do we accept the pupil forecasts Southwark Council right or wrong.

Until March Southwark Council was adamant we did not need a new secondary school in Dulwich. With 550 families wanting one they changed their reports to agree a new secondary was needed.

What's the worst that would happen if we have this primary school built - fewer Southwark children attending non Southwark primary schools, the secondary school being less expansive than Charter or Habs current secondary school.

[Otta]

I knew about the potential second school (boo), but the whole planning around the police station site makes no sense to me.

[first mate]

James, aside from the back and forth on alleged need in ED for a second primary, notwithstanding how we define ED, the key point seems to be whether the hospital site has room for a decent secondary as well as a primary. It seems everyone, other than Harris themselves and a few supporters of this particular application, think not. So, as it stands, Harris'seeming intransigence may jeopardise the secondary school.

BTW I do hope the trees in front of the Old Police Station are safe. It is rumoured his L'dship does not take kindly to trees on or near his property; the application has a number of references to trees which are suggestive of get out clauses should 'accidental' damage occur.

[first mate]

Otta, apologies, I realised after I posted. Explain more about what makes no sense re Old POlice Station site?

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

Harris don't get to decide where the school they've signed up to provide would go. The Education Finance Agency (EFA)decide. If it had been left to Harris I suspect both would have been built by now.

The EFA also decide which free school applicatinos are approved and will hopefully after approving a new secondary school for ED decide to build it at the Hospital site. But they are extremely cost focused as huge increase in pupil numbers. Last time the Education Minister visited ED he explained ?12bn being spent on basic need new pupil place provision.

So the EFA will be very focused no how much thel and and buildings cost.

But as I siad whether a secondary alone or secondary and primary are build on the hospital site the site has thep potential for secondary school the same of bigger in land allocated for the school than the current Charter School or Haberdasher's. The limiting factor will be the land price and NHS Property knowing all the spare land is needed for educational purposes 'soft' marketted the site to large house builder so they're clerly going to try getting housing land values.

[first mate]

James, I don't think demonising NHS Property services is helpful, they are obliged to get the highest price fir the land, that is their remit. The Coalition have been largely responsible for turning the NHS inside out, I feel pretty sure that if they were so utterly scandalised by what NHS Property is doing the govt could have intervened. Instead it is much easier to play the blame game.

Perhaps central govt would be wise to consider the needs and wishes of the local community before offering up jewels in the crown, in this case ED Hospital Land, to one if its favoured suppliers.

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

You've not been on conference calls with NHS Property!

But their predecessory body kept the Dulwioch Hospital site in its current state for close to 20 years as well.

One ray of hope is my Right to Contest application approaching its first anniversary appears to be forcing them to explain to the Cabinet Office why things are so ridiculously delayed.

[Otta]

So hang on, as I understood it Harris bought the police station. Is that not correct? Who actually owns that land now?

The whole system seems arse over tit.

[James Barber]

Hi Otta,

My understanding is the EFA bought the former ED Police station to house a Harris ED Primary School.

Clearly as the ultimate user the Harris people are heavily involved BUT the EFA are accountable for delivering the physical school.

[first mate]

Must admit, I had wondered who actually owns the land on which free schools are built? For instance, is that land enshrined in law to only ever be used for education purposes in future- that is schools? In regard to NHS land and the hospital site, I guess much thought is needed when handing over public property to the private sector- though 20 years is a bit rich I grant you.

[Bony Fido]

Just received a letter from Southwark Council Planning Division re: "Consultation on application for full planning permission" for "The development of a two form primary school,involving the demolition of all existing buildings on the site;and the erection of a part two,part three and part four storey building;with associated new cycle and pedestrian access. at 173 Lordship Lane London SE22 8HA."

This consultation period starts on 15/01/2015 and ends on 04/02/2015.

Council ref:- 14/AP/4580

Contact Kiran Chauhan Tel: 020 7525 5513

[UVArchitects]

you can send your comments to the council here

[email protected]

put this in your 'Subject ' line:

Comments on application 14/AP/4580

Please state your full postal address and postcode in the email

oh and i copied in

[email protected] and hopefully he will represent us to the planning department

[James Barber]

Certainly will UVARchitests.

[lucy_n]

Hi,

Do we have any more update as to what is happening? And when the demolition will begin?

Thanks,

Lucy