A political revolution? ..er maybe

[StraferJack]

Here is what I think would make a lot of people NOT vote UKIP

Non-UKIP voters making it obvious that UKIP don't have a fair point.

As it is, the media saturate us with UKIP presence in all programmes (in a way other minority parties don't get) and lots of people who have felt they Have been unable to be publicly bigoted for years suddenly feel liberated and encouraged.

So you encourage them if you want.

Free speech? I'm not stopping them speaking - I'm just saying what they say is wrong.

If I was a woman I would be petrified of UKIP having any access to power for example.

[????]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> God forbid people should take responsibility for

> their actions

Yup. All those people who voted for a party stuffed with cabinet ministers who supported an illegal war say

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Here is what I think would make a lot of people

> NOT vote UKIP

>

> Non-UKIP voters making it obvious that UKIP don't

> have a fair point.

>

> As it is, the media saturate us with UKIP presence

> in all programmes (in a way other minority parties

> don't get) and lots of people who have felt they

> Have been unable to be publicly bigoted for years

> suddenly feel liberated and encouraged.

>

> So you encourage them if you want.

>

> Free speech? I'm not stopping them speaking - I'm

> just saying what they say is wrong.

>

> If I was a woman I would be petrified of UKIP

> having any access to power for example.

I'm not encouraging anyone, so fuck off on that one.

I'm saying that not everyone of them is a thick cab driver or a closet bigot now happy to "cone out". 10 years ago I'd have said that, but things jave changed and if you can't see that then you're being more closed minded than sone of them.

[Otta]

And for the record I think my views on UKIP are probably near enough identical to yours, but I think you're being an idiot if you think that every voter (WHICHEVER party they vote for) is looking beyond the promises of a leader in a TV interview.

[Loz]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> If I was a woman I would be petrified of UKIP

> having any access to power for example.

OK, I'll bite... which of UKIP policy/manifesto promises makes yoou think that?

[Brendan]

Need a beer much?

[LuLu Too]

Loz Wrote:

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> StraferJack Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > If I was a woman I would be petrified of UKIP

> > having any access to power for example.

>

> OK, I'll bite... which of UKIP policy/manifesto

> promises makes yoou think that?

I believe the UKIP manifesto proposes a statutory duty upon UK women to clean behind their fridges on a quarterly basis... Or face being publicly branded "a slut".

[StraferJack]

Was there a party NOT supporting that war quids?

Otta. You are in quite the charming mood lately.

"Part of me feels pleased about UKIP winning a seat in parliament"

Sound familiar?

No way to I think you are in anyway a ukip supporter. But I think that sentence displayed encouragement to UKIP voters. Do you think it doesn't?

Loz. I'm sure the source will be enough for you to dismiss it but just in case

http://leftfootforward.org/2014/05/15-reasons-women-shouldnt-vote-for-ukip/

[Otta]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Need a beer much?

Well yeah, but it wouldn't change what I'm saying here.

I think that if we all took SJ's stance (and not just SJ obviously, I'm not picking on him, but he's voicing it rather strongly), then more and more people would end up going to UKIP, because what UKIP do is divide, and start and "us and them" thing. SJ seems to be playing in to that from where I'm sitting.

Where SJ is spot on is that the media are giving UKIP the kind of press that, say, the greens could only dream of. But whilst that's going on, I don't think it helps for the self appointed "clever press" to say "look at them, isn't that silly".

At least Nick legg had the bottle to go up against Farage, Cameron should send Borris after him. Two big media personalities who happen to be politicians. Let the very popular (with many) Borris take a pop at Farage.

[StraferJack]

" then more and more people would end up going to UKIP,"

if anyone changes their vote to a repugnant party because they feel patronised then it says way more about them than it does the commenter

[StraferJack]

"because what UKIP do is divide,"

is that what they do?

every individual or party "divides" people

But it's pretty easy to stay on THIS side of a UKIP line isn't it?

If I suddenly stated an intention to vote UKIP, would people say "wtf has happened to him?" or would people say "fair enough really. The party he has supported for the last 25 years has let him down and he didn't feel he had an alternative"

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> Was there a party NOT supporting that war quids?

>

> Otta. You are in quite the charming mood lately.

I'm fed up with being nice and charming, it gets you nowhere, and I'm finding you really bloody patronising.

>

> "Part of me feels pleased about UKIP winning a

> seat in parliament"

>

> Sound familiar?

Yes, it's a selected part of my facebook status from Friday. The WHOLE thing went

"Part of me feels pleased about UKIP winning a seat in parliament. Feel like something is actually happening for a change and hopefully the arrogant leading parties might start to take notice and actually stand up and fight rather than just dismissing it."

> No way to I think you are in anyway a ukip

> supporter. But I think that sentence displayed

> encouragement to UKIP voters. Do you think it

> doesn't?

Well if you just take the bit you chose to share on here in order to paint me in a certain light, then yeah I guess.

If however you read the whole thing, I think (if you have half a brain) you'd realise that I am pleased because I think the whole political world needs a kick in the arse. Isn't that part of the reason you were wetting yourself over the Scottish referendum a couple of short weeks ago?

I watched Question Time on Thursday, and still the likes of Harriett Harman were just dismissing UKIP voters, even though a good few of them were telling her why they'd felt this was all that was left for them. I don't agree with these people, but dismiss them and soon enough you'll see that UKIP are not just a little protest party.

THAT is what I want to avoid, I just think that your attitude to it is playing in to their hands.

But we'll agree to disagree.

I'm not trying to fall out with anyone, but I won't be mis/selectively quoted and dismissed either.

[StraferJack]

I was on the phone and couldn't copy paste the whole thing - I wans't trying to misrepresent you at all

Nor do I think your full paragraph changes anything - it says to people who are tempted to vote UKIP they are doing a good thing ultimatly

The SNP comparison is bogus, because it was actually about a constitutional change and the GOOD part was the high level of engagement and turn out across Scotland (you do remember I posted about being on the No side don't you?)

[StraferJack]

I'm also interested in any suggestions on how to "engage" with UKIP voters to dissuade them from doing so?

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> I was on the phone and couldn't copy paste the

> whole thing - I wans't trying to misrepresent you

> at all

>

> Nor do I think your full paragraph changes

> anything - it says to people who are tempted to

> vote UKIP

Oh FFS. it's MY FB page, so I'm voicing an opinion which was not pro UKIP but rather hopeful that the "main" parties might step up.

If someone is stupid enough to base their vote on what I write on FB because they think they've got my blessing, then they are a f**king moron. But I very much douby that my status will lead anyone to vote UKIP.

[StraferJack]

Otta - you're engaging in this conversation si I'm using you as a reference point but I'm not trying to make it about you

The opinion you posted is one that has a lot of currency at the moment - Loads of people are expressing the same opinion. And I disagree with it

True, in isolation YOUR opinion isn't going to change anything (none of us have that magic power) but when an idea is common currency then yes it does encourage people

[Otta]

Well I'm not sure it does, and don't think either of us can prove either way at this stage. So we'll see I guess...

[StraferJack]

so - main parties. What ideas can they come up with to woo would-be UKIP voters?

It would mean taking the list of UKIP voter grievances

we could start with this selection

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27584237

[Otta]

Otta Wrote:

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> Cameron should send Borris after him. Two

> big media personalities who happen to be

> politicians. Let the very popular (with many)

> Borris take a pop at Farage.

Okay I should have known better than to say that. Just heard Bozza on the radio basically saying. I had a chat with Douglas (Carswel) and basically we pretty much agreed on everything, so his beloved "kippers" may as well just vote Tory".

Oh dear.

[Otta]

Although clever I guess, as the anti Europe Tory back benchers will have liked the sound of it.

[????]

Political disengagement part 207 - a party that wins 1 seat and polls about 12% now seems to dictating the policy for Dave and Ed.

Political pygmise both of them, Unlike SJ I'm pretty sure I've friends (and possibly family) who will say they are going to vote UKIP, rather than huffing off with my Guardian tucked under my arm tutting I WILL be pointing out how fooking stupid their action are...which is more than the PM and the Leader of the 'progressive' party seem to be able to do right now

[Otta]

I think I have (extended) family who will possibly be looking down that road too. MAYBE even my old man (if the blokes in the pub convince him)...

And I suspect I have "friends" (in a facebooky - used to know them, think they're pretty decent people, but unlikely to be seeing them anytime soon - way) who will also be tempted or even definites already. And I will tell them I think they're wrong, but I won't be dismissing them all as racist idiots.

[StraferJack]

" rather than huffing off with my Guardian tucked under my arm tutting I WILL be pointing out how fooking stupid their action are"

I thought I wasn't doing any of the former and plenty of the latter, for which I've been told I've been patronising?

"Unlike SJ I'm pretty sure I've friends (and possibly family) who will say they are going to vote UKIP"

Have I said I don't have no friends and family who would vote UKIP? If I have I stand corrected (as I've already bemoaned the fact on facebook)

"which is more than the PM and the Leader of the 'progressive' party seem to be able to do right now"

I thought this was the point. Otta has already pointed out Harriet Harman was dismissing UKIP voters, Brown got in trouble for calling a woman a bigot, and until UKIP made electoral gains recently leaders of both parties got in trouble for dissing UKIP voters. I wish they had stuck to those guns.. but you rpost seems to be made up of off-the-shelf cliches rather than what people are actually saying

[DaveR]

this

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1439816a-52bb-11e4-a236-00144feab7de.html#axzz3G756hLMV

[The ED Wilberforces]

Interesting perspective here suggesting most 'Kippers should be voting Green:

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/73-ukip-voters-green-party.html