Dulwich Estate - fit to run conservation?

[SLad]

Maybe because people who can't afford massive houses would like to live somewhere nice like Dulwich Village like all those other awful flat dwellers on Dekker Road and the like. Ruffians and upstarts, I know.

[fazer71]

Maybe they should build offices on that site so people can get to work easily.

A 30 floor sky scraper would do the job perfectly.

It would save all the journeys into the city etc etc ...

Or maybe a dog sanctuary or how about a mosque or spiritualist centre plenty of demand for those.

[Henry_17]

Nimbys,

The platitudes - hilarious if done on purpose, please get over the self-attribution bias if otherwise.

Henry

[DulvilleRes]

It really is a rotten plan. I find it surprising that reputable architects such as Panther Hudspith get involved in such a project. Having come to know the Dulwich Estate over the years, I'm less surprised at their part, and I think their involvement in this really does force the question - how can they rule on such far reaching conservation issues, when they are substantial financial beneficiaries from them? Its a bit like a judge ruling on a court case where he or she is a major share holder.

I'm personally open minded to redevelopment on the site, but not this cynical exercise in screwing as much cash out of the site for as little legacy investment as possible. They could simply make the site 12 ft smaller in one corner, and leave the fabulous stocks monument where it should be. I think they should find a way of incorporating the 1930's Petrol Station into the site plan - despite its neglect and adaptations, its an intrinsically great structure from a bygone eras of motoring, and fits in perfectly with it's quiet corner opposite the Arts and Crafts Village Hall. It is getting flattened for something that looks like Barratts. Nothing wrong with Barratts, but not worth destroying heritage for.

My understanding is that a number of residents associations are active in the planning process - I'll dig out some contacts and get them over to you

[fazer71]

I quite like the plans.

Contemporary design with lots of large windows all built out of yellow London stocks.

They could just replicate the Edwardian and Victorian look but for why?

Compared to the design of the new houses on Court Lane this is a delight.

The 1930's petrol station offers little in terms of visual interest "looks like a hut" and is of zero benefit to anyone.

If the residents ever have a big say the result = NOTHING would Ever happen Nothing would be built we would all be living in mud huts!

[DulvilleRes]

I'm all for contemporary, but this is average/ below. All due respect, but 'Quite like' isn't a good enough response for the buildings to evoke in my book. Why isn't it brilliant? If Dulwich Estate make all this pious fuss about maintaining standards in their jurisdiction ( I heard that they wouldn't even allow an external cash machine) they have to do better than this.

The 1930's petrol station has been completely neglected, and its original function ignored, so its basically a crap office now. This is not surprising, as SG Smith have been trying to pull it down for years, so they can park more Audis. However in essence, it is a lovely building that perfectly compliments the village hall over the road. Check out online some examples of rare survivors of petrol stations from this era that have been properly done up with a bit of creative flair and imagination. The building could be adapted for all kinds of uses, including being part of a bigger residential building. This is one of the uses that former stations have been put to, just retaining the facade/ frontage. Or dare I say it could be adapted for something that might benefit the community, but seeing as that would cost the estate ?5 million plus in lost property sales revenue, pigs will obviously fly.

[EDOldie]

I think there's a lot of scope to incorporate the old petrol station into any redevelopment and it really ought to be listed before it is too late. I'm sure I remember my Dad filling up there in the 1960's.

My problem is not so much the houses, there were small houses there years ago in Calton Avenue, but the complete lack of imagination and amenity value to the Village and the wider area. The only consultation from the Dulwich Estate has been, 'This is what we are proposing' not a word about 'What do you think we should do here'. Mind you, they wouldn't want anyone to think they were a Charity. Opps, they are!

[fazer71]

The old petrol station has little use a little architectural merit.

Which guarantees it a good chance of getting listed.

;)

[skiddywill]

What about the stocks! I love the stocks!

[Jeremy]

Is this the petrol station building you're talking about?

 

[fazer71]

Yep and isn't a Cracker ;)

[Jeremy]

Delightful.

[fazer71]

Next time the sun shines I'm going to get a deck chair and sit opposite to get the full impact and so fully appreciate it's architectural beauty.

;)

[EDOldie]

That's probably not the best photo of it and remember how much of our heritage has been lost over the years through demolition of interesting buildings in the area because they weren't fashionable at the time of their demise. The Bluebird Garage in the Kings Road is an excellent example of a site which has been redeveloped taking advantage of it's interesting architectural history. Another one is the Michelin building Sloane Avenue/Fulham Road. I'm not saying the building in Gilkes Place is such an iconic example of 20th Century garage architecture, but surely The Dulwich Estate could think of a more imaginative way of incorporating this building into any redevelopment of this site and help to retain the 20's/30' character in these roads.

[mikeb]

Is it true that the Estate has stopped the Barclays having a cash machine on aesthetics grounds?

[Otta]

I don't know, but it's bloody annoying!

[MrBen]

Well said EDOldie. Ignoring the tarmac and car lot around that and looking more closely?.isn't that Arts and Crafts?

[Mick Mac]

To understand Dulwich Estate surely we need to look at who it benefits with all of its cash collected (apart from just being a guardian of the asthetics of the area).

So the question: who are the cash beneficiaries of DE?

[MrBen]

It might not be the best example of A&C as it's late in the period and nudging 1930's stylings?.but it's still part of the the point here is that the style is prevalent throughout the village and therefore is an integral part of it's character.

I don't see consistency in the Estates selective form of conservation management - like their commercial leasing policy, it's hardly enlightened.

[fazer71]

The Dulwich Estate only care about keeping themselves busy and screwing as much money as they can out of the Estate to pay their wages and give to the charity.

That's the reality.

Enlightenment lol ...

[spider69]

EDOldie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's probably not the best photo of it and

> remember how much of our heritage has been lost

> over the years through demolition of interesting

> buildings in the area because they weren't

> fashionable at the time of their demise. The

> Bluebird Garage in the Kings Road is an excellent

> example of a site which has been redeveloped

> taking advantage of it's interesting architectural

> history. Another one is the Michelin building

> Sloane Avenue/Fulham Road. I'm not saying the

> building in Gilkes Place is such an iconic example

> of 20th Century garage architecture, but surely

> The Dulwich Estate could think of a more

> imaginative way of incorporating this building

> into any redevelopment of this site and help to

> retain the 20's/30' character in these roads.

As it looks like a public toilet found in past years in parks why not turn it into one for the benefit of all.

[fazer71]

spider69 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As it looks like a public toilet found in past

> years in parks why not turn it into one for the

> benefit of all.

I was so tempted to say that but didn't want to get flamed.... ;(

[spider69]

You cannot deny the truth with spin

[DulvilleRes]

Here is a link to what can be done to unloved 1930's Petrol Station

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2318845/Pumped-character-Listed-art-deco-garage-restored-converted-flats-falling-disrepair.html

?.. and an English Heritage one to this area of motoring heritage in general

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/publications/iha-buildings-infrastructure-motor-car/buildings-infrastructure-motor-car-iha.pdf.

The Dulwich garage which is threatened with demolition is influenced by the Arts and Crafts Village Hall over the road, so, whilst it isn't strictly comparable to the Art Deco garage in the link above, it has a unique style all of its own. I personally really like it. Even if it's inherent architectural qualities don't float your boat, historically it speaks of a time when cars were small enough to fit under it's front porch. Once it is gone, it is gone, and with it goes a bit of suburban transport history.

For me the main point is the Dulwich Estate and their architects Panther Hudspith have chosen to ignore the fact there might be any conservation debate at all, when clearly, given the spirited debate on this thread, this isn't the case. The petrol station barely registers in their current exhaustive planning application, which given the Estate's broader role, strikes me as either incompetent or disingenuous. It also smacks of a high handed autocratic style I'm becoming used to - we'll take your cash every year to preserve Dulwich as we see fit, but when it comes to our own business interests, we'll do what we want.

[Exjags]

It seems a shame an organisation that owes it's existence to historic philanthropy cannot use it's current wealth and influence to both protect the heritage of the Village and build something lasting for the future. Maybe something that everyone can enjoy. Whilst the comments above suggest the old garage is not a stunner this maybe is an opportunity to create something special? Would that not be in the spirit of a modern Edward Alleyn?