Has anyone tried the Alpha course?

[Keef]

if it doesn't float your boat, let it go.

Whoa PGC, I never even said a word about the course, I'd never heard of it. I was just saying that Noah can't have been 950 years old!

I wouldn't mind seeing one session of the course just out of interest, but the one time I went to All Saints, I have to say I found them a bit full on, and they freaked me out a bit. Good music though.

That was my first post on this thread, and I think you've kicked off at the wrong person to be honest.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Sorry Hon,

I was putting 8 pages' worth of response into one answer.

Music at All Saints is v. good - they write a lot of their own stuff too.

ps - Noah's a baby compared to Methuselah!

[mockney piers]

Oh, I quite like DAn Simmons, though not sure why the refernce here?

Have you been quoting Keats and Chaucer and Homer again?

*oops didn't notice the extra page there*

[Brendan]

?Beauty is truth, truth beauty - that is all ye know on earth? - Keats

?We little know the things for which we pray? - Chaucer

?I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman? - Homer

[lozzyloz]

The DS reference was with regard to the Catholic Church's rise to universal power over the Hegemony by way of the Cruciform and eventually losing to the force of the love that binds us all.

[mockney piers]

I actually thought he might be catholic after reading the first couple.

I was less convinced by the end of the third one, although he still seems to have an affection for it.

Lapsed catholic perhaps?

[Michael Palaeologus]

Reading this thread is much like listening to the Archers. Leave it for a while and then come back, you havent missed anything as within a few minutes you can pick up whats going on as its much like what was going on the last time you looked.

[snorky]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Reading this thread is much like listening to the

> Archers. Leave it for a while and then come back,

> you havent missed anything as within a few minutes

> you can pick up whats going on as its much like

> what was going on the last time you looked.

Yup

religion innit - when you are discussing soemthing that doesnt exist, there cant really be a satisfactory conclusion where everyone comes to an agreement

[Jeremy]

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> religion innit - when you are discussing soemthing

> that doesnt exist, there cant really be a

> satisfactory conclusion where everyone comes to an

> agreement

Very true... although I can't say that I've ever noticed a "satisfactory conclusion" to any debate on this forum!

[blinder999]

an article in The Guardian sums it up nicely for me:

Sir David Attenborough has revealed that he receives hate mail from viewers for failing to credit God in his documentaries. In an interview with this week's Radio Times about his latest documentary, on Charles Darwin and natural selection, the broadcaster said: "They tell me to burn in hell and good riddance."

Telling the magazine that he was asked why he did not give "credit" to God, Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Attenborough went further in his opposition to creationism, saying it was "terrible" when it was taught alongside evolution as an alternative perspective. "It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five ... Evolution is not a theory; it is a fact, every bit as much as the historical fact that William the Conqueror landed in 1066."

Attenborough, who attended the Wyggeston Grammar School for Boys in Leicester in the 1930s, said he was astonished at manifestations of Christian faith.

"It never really occurred to me to believe in God - and I had nothing to rebel against, my parents told me nothing whatsoever. But I do remember looking at my headmaster delivering a sermon, a classicist, extremely clever ... and thinking, he can't really believe all that, can he? How incredible!"

In 2002, Attenborough joined an effort by clerics and scientists to oppose the inclusion of creationism in the curriculum of state-funded independent schools receiving private sponsorship, such as the Emmanuel Schools Foundation.

[Huggers]

We are all but phantasmal manifestations electrically impulsing through my sleeping dog's quivering dream. Accept that and you will all be happy.

[Keef]

"It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five

Such a good way of putting it.

Teaching of creationism in schoolds is the one thing that I can't reconsile myself with. I was amazed the other day to hear on the radio that 60% of Americans believe in the biblical account of the creation. That is just scary!

[Sue]

blinder999 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> an article in The Guardian sums it up nicely for

> me:

>

>> Telling the magazine that he was asked why he did

> not give "credit" to God, Attenborough added:

> "They always mean beautiful things like

> hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I

> think of a little child in east Africa with a worm

> burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot

> live in any other way, except by burrowing through

> eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the

> notion of a divine and benevolent creator

xxxxxxxxxxx

Yes. It's also like when people give thanks and credit to God for the good things that happen to them/others, but don't seem to think that he (sorry, He) has anything to do with the bad things.

Or if someone is rescued alive from a disaster it's a miracle and due to God, especially if they prayed to be rescued, but the zillions who were killed are nothing to do with him/Him, even though it's a pretty safe bet many of them were praying to be rescued too.

Weird.

[Bizzy]

At school, RE isn't taught to convert. It's taught to educate people on other beliefs.

Sue

Nice comparative use of 1:Zillion there. Sometimes God puts people through difficult situations, and carries them through it so that they can witness to others.

If a madman cuts short someone else?s life, it's a disaster created by man at the cost of another man?s life. God could intervene, but God gave man the choice of free will to do as he pleases, from living a Christian life to denouncing the existing of God to "doing things my way".

[Keef]

Yeah but what if the victim is a Christian and has put his trust in God to help him through his life?

And what about Noah being 950 years old?????

I am normally strongly in the Christians corner on this forum, sticking up for people's right to believe, but stuff like what you have just written almost make me want to join the Sean, Mark, Snorky brigade!

[annaj]

What Keef said.

I'm a very fence-sitting, wishy-washy, former CofE, agnostic, but this debate has pushed me further from christianity than I have ever felt before.

Well done Bizzy.

[Moos]

For those of you who might have wondered why I'm not taking part in this thread, I'm afraid it simply because I'm chicken and can't face the snarling contempt and anger of the board. Sorry. To those of you, regardless of your views, who have stood up for respect, honesty, thinking, listening and tolerance and who have had the courage to say so, thanks.

[Keef]

I'm a very fence-sitting, wishy-washy, former CofE, agnostic

I'd always struggled to describe what I am, and I think you've just nailed it. Although I would say "former candle carrying CofE".

[annaj]

Yes, although we've never talked about it in detail, I had a feeling we came from the same sort of starting point on religion.

And like you I would normally defend anyone's right to believe, but some of the views expressed here have reminded very strongly of the reasons I satrted to doubt, and eventually left, the church.

[Bizzy]

Keef,

Noah being 950 years old - why could it not have been possible for people to live longer back then than they can today? The world has deteriorated so much since the times of Noah. Matey who mentioned Attenborough ? maybe he can explain this better.

I don't see how someone?s view can change by what I had just said. Am I missing the point?

Annaj

I'm sorry this thread has had such an effect on you although I'm left wondering as to why you felt the need to congratulate me on something I had *clearly* not set out to do. Another close minded dig perhaps?

[annaj]

Not a dig so much as intended to highlight the irony that your posts defending your faith had only pushed me further from it.

And I resent being called closed minded when you know nothing about me and have nothing to base that on.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

If anyone is seriously interested in finding out some answers to tough questions, you might want to have a look at a book by Amy Orr-Ewing called "Why Trust the Bible?" [iBSN 978-0-85111-993-9]

She lives in Peckham (good to support the locals), has theology degrees from Christ Church, Oxford & King's College, London and is a professional apologist.

[snorky]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Keef,

>

> Noah being 950 years old - why could it not have

> been possible for people to live longer back then

> than they can today? The world has deteriorated so

> much since the times of Noah. Matey who mentioned

> Attenborough ? maybe he can explain this better.

>

> I don't see how someone?s view can change by what

> I had just said. Am I missing the point?

>

> Annaj

>

> I'm sorry this thread has had such an effect on

> you although I'm left wondering as to why you felt

> the need to congratulate me on something I had

> *clearly* not set out to do. Another close minded

> dig perhaps?

aha

I see - an inabilty to chew down bollocks = closed mind

Noah - 100% fail

Keep on going- that Goebbles inspired propaganda machine that you are using seems to alientiang more people than it attracts

[Keef]

I think actually human's are move "advanced" now than they would have been then, and lifespans are vertainly longer now than they were say 500 years ago, so it's not outside the rhealms of possibility to suggest that a human wouldn't have made 100 let alone 950.

I am all for Christianality, and would NEVER question your right to believe in God (no one can PROVE s/he doesn't exist) and the Bible, but I do call in to question people taking literally old stories that are just NOT possible!

Please don't take this the wrong way, but to be honest, if I was on the fence, and open to being taken in to the fold, and someone started preaching that sort of thing to me, they would turn me straight off. I'd rather someone say, "of course someone couldn't have lived to 950, but the point is the story offers us ideas and moral suggestions", that might make me go along to see what it was all about.

[Bizzy]

Annaj

By the tone of your posts it's quite obvious.

Snorky

As I have said before i'm not trying to convert on this board. Get it right.