Has anyone tried the Alpha course?

[LegalEagle-ish]

I became a Christian about 2001 and have done various bible study courses and stuff since then.

I decided to give the 10 week Alpha course a go last night at All Saints church and my first session was last night.

It was brilliant.

It wasn't soppy or about trusting fairh, it gave loads historical evidence to back up the existance of Jesus and was really interesting.

I am quite a sceptical, cynical even, type of person and all the questions I had plus way more were explored and satisfactory answers given.

I challange any athiest or agnostic to complete the Alpha course and not change their thinking.

Here is a link to the National Alpha website.

edited for spelling

[SeanMacGabhann]

[edited because I didn't need to be that waspish this early in the morning. I might still be waspish in the afternoon tho...]

[SteveT]

SeanMacGabhann wrote:- let's not dwell on their problems with homosexuality

I didn't think the Church of England had any problems with homosexuality, I thought it was crawling with'em.

[Bellenden Belle]

Steve T, I think you'll find that's the Catholic church.

The Church of England has pockets of tolerance towards homosexuality....or at least is prepared to engage in the debate.

The Catholic Church with its bigoted views does seem to attract some people whose sexuality is repressed and who are often deeply unhappy with both their sexuality and themselves.

But sorry Legaleagle...unless the Alpha course is delivered by the Sesame Street team, complete with Eric and Ernie giving a lecture on loving relationships, I won't be joining up.

[Nero]

Remember that the Alpha Course is designed to make you believe in Xtianity, in the same way a billboard is designed to make you believe in CocoPops or Alfa Romeo. If it weren't full of plausible answers then the marketers behind it wouldn't have done their jobs properly.

[cdonline]

I did the Alpha Course.

It turned me Gay.

[Jeremy]

The very fact that there are hundreds of separate Christian sects, with their own twists and modifications to the belief system... doesn't that send any alarm bells ringing? What makes you think that your version is more "correct" in the eyes of god than any other?

Regarding LegalEagle's challenge - a 10-week course is an awful long time to convince someone of something. But I would happily go to one session (provided I didn't have to pay for it) and I guarantee that there is a simple and logical counter-argument for any evidence they produce.

[Mark]

When a stage hypnotist asks for volunteers to come on stage, those people have passed the first "test", they are wanting and more importantly willing for things to be done to them. And you cannot force someone to be hypnotised who does not want to.

The same goes for Alpha courses, you are wanting and willing to hear something that you want to hear, they're just going to massage the frail and uncertain bit in your head and bind it with Jesus. I have spoken to Alpha course leaders and as someone who was not "willing to go up on their stage" they simply say that I have not found the way yet. You can't argue with them as they will just keep saying "when you find Jesus you will find yourself" etc which to me is nonsense. I don't need someone to make me create a missing void in my life and then they conveniently have something to fill it.

At the end of the day it's just the church rebranded to make it easier to take in, like when Neurofen brought out the "no water needed caplets", same shit just an easier way for the masses to swallow it.

[Cassius]

"I challange any athiest or agnostic to complete the Alpha course and not change their thinking."

I think that depends on your frame of mind when you attend, and where you are on the spectrum of believer-unbeliever. Some agnostics, who are, by definition, not sure where they stand, might well change their thinking, however if the same people went to a similar course run by Richard Dawkins style atheiests might change in the opposite direction.

[Huguenot]

A fine assessment Mark! I've not seen it said better!

[LegalEagle-ish]

They feed you too - so you should just try one - at least you will have a nice free meal if nothing else.

It's more about examining the evidence and asking you to ask all the questions you want to - it's not like some kind of brain washing hypnotism. There is a lot of discussion and debate.

A bit like here then.

I found the historical evidence really interesting.

[Michael Palaeologus]

What evidence? The Bible is not evidence, its a series of stories cobbled together by a Roman Emperor who had a convenient semi-conversion to Chritianity, but kept his hand in with Sol-Invictus just in case.

Super-natural hocum.

[Jeremy]

I must admit that I am quite curious to hear this evidence...

[Huguenot]

I think you'll find there are very few educated people who deny the possible existence of a perpatetic 'Jesus' or the historical context in which he born and lived. Travelling sages of the time (whether claiming to be a new Messiah or simply soothsayers) were two a penny.

If that's your pretext for supporting the Alpha course the its only weakness is its lack of originality.

Most people find large amounts of Christian philosophy highly palatable too - the ten commandments and various parables provide us with a reasonable and comparatively inoffensive moral framework within which to live our lives.

I have no doubt that the next few sessions of Alpha will build on these platitudes, and you'll find yourself once more struggling to understand what all the fuss is about.

However, as religion becomes more mystical it encourages the subjugation of your rational judgement to the unquestioning authority of a tribal hierarchy, who seek your affiliation for entirely alternative agendas.

Like any extremist orgainsation it demands acts of inhumanity (the stoning to death of transgressors for example) in an escalating progression to reinforce your ties to the organisation. It precludes rational debate to the point where you can no longer challenge the organisation without losing your identity.

This is the problem for me, when religion becomes political: an imperative dogma that mobilises families, tribes and nations to acts of gross oppression on individuals or groups who don't accept their beliefs, authority or hierarchy.

My advice would be to find a religion that allows you to explore philosophical questions without demanding your subordination to the political wills of others.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Hard to disagree with Huguenot's comments in any way.

Fortunately, like those wise sages of yesteryear Messrs Davy Jones,Micky Dolenz, Michael Nesmith and Pete York, I am,too, a Believer but I also believe to enjoy ones life as much as possible one should give the widest of wide births to anyone who is too involved with Religion or Politics as they, inevitably, have a closed mind themselves, and yet seek to influence most people they come into contact with:))

[karter]

At the end of the day it's just the church rebranded to make it easier to take in, like when Neurofen brought out the "no water needed caplets", same shit just an easier way for the masses to swallow it.

It may be church rebranded but if it makes people feel good and feel better then so be it. I attended the Dominion Theatre on Tottenham Court Rd with forumite friends just for the fun of it on a Sunday afternoon and witnessed thousands of people bonding and happy clappping and meeting up afterwards at AllBarOne round the corner,they do this every Sunday. No ripoff charges, just donations in a basket if one wants to give. I was sceptical too at the start but came out with a positive charge. Great concert and music and no heavy christian preaching. So i agree with legaleagle-ish, just give something like this a try if you want. Nothing to lose

[Cassius]

I went to one of these services in a Theatre to see a friend who had recently converted sing in the choir. I too saw lots of happy clapping and smiling faces, however when we all went for a drink afterwards the tone changed as I was told by friends of this "friend", now an EX friend that sadly I was going to burn in hell unless I changed by lifestyle.

I am quite happy for people to believe what they want to believe. If if makes them happy then good for them, but please please don't tell me how to lead my life!

[Bellenden Belle]

. I

> attended the Dominion Theatre on Tottenham Court

> Rd with forumite friends just for the fun of it on

> a Sunday afternoon and witnessed thousands of

> people bonding and happy clappping and meeting up

> afterwards at AllBarOne round the corner,they do

> this every Sunday.

Hillsong, which is the church you are describing, has a very dubious history. And a horrendous take on homosexuality. It has been described as a cult previously. And don't kid yourself it doesn't cost anything... you think the rental of the Dominion Theatre every Sunday comes cheap?

I have seen quite vulnerable people become involved in Hillsong - the expectations and demands it actually puts on people increase very quickly. Hillsong, like so many religions, preys on the people who most need hope and those desperately needing answers.

[hislordship]

Alpha ruined a lifetime friendship of mine. Almost as soon as my friend started it, he developed what I can only describe as extreme evangelist views, and was unable to contain them - he'd even stop random people to tell them about the the holy spirit and how nasty hell would be for them if they didn't become a believer. I ended having to ask him not to contact me anymore. I have met several other Alpha people over the years, with all of them sharing these views to some degree

In my limited experience, Alpha prays on the weak, and leads them either into or towards right wing evangelism.

[karter]

Blimey BB, i didn't know any of that. It was just a one off for me but it felt good and was worth the visit.

[Bellenden Belle]

Have a google Karter and see what you find....

But I don't doubt it does feel good. Thousands of people all singing together - I imagine it's quite euphoric. The pull of the crowd, mass participation, united in one purpose...can't you just support a football team instead?

[microbite]

Have to say I have had a similar experience to Hislordship (great name by the way!) with a friend of mine, its the holier than thou attitude I couldn't be bothered with once he had found Jesus, and I am no longer in touch with him.

Organisations do prey on vulnerable people who are looking for answers and seeking hope, I have to admit I am one of the millions who feel the same way, I am seeking answers to life and want to really believe that there is something spiritually greater out there and am looking for answers too, I have yet to find a relgion/way of life that I feel comfortable with, and believe me I have investigated quite a few, I used to love it when Jehovah's Witnesses came knocking on my door spouting their views on the various "fake" religions out there, I would get them to argue their "points" with me and then proceed to explain how their religion/way of life was just as "fake" and hypocrytical as quite a lot of others out there.

[Bellenden Belle]

microbite Wrote:

I am seeking answers to life and want to

> really believe that there is something spiritually

> greater out there and am looking for answers too,

> I have yet to find a relgion/way of life that I

> feel comfortable with

I echo your sentiments Microbite ...I can absolutely see the attraction in finding answers and for finding something that offers some meaning to life beyond day-to-day materialism, etc.

I quite liked Unitarianism for a while. http://www.unitarian.org.uk/about1.htm

I practised at the Hampstead branch and loved the fact that the readings were almost always secular and were often drawn from politics, history, science or the arts. And so it was more about taking an hour out to ask yourself about your own personal values and reflect on the world around you. Mind you, I went to the Brighton unitarian church and it was very old school so you have to find the right one.

But atheists, agnostics, and allsorts are warmly welcomed... as themselves, with no need to ever change.

[karter]

Bellenden Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Have a google Karter and see what you find....

>

> But I don't doubt it does feel good. Thousands of

> people all singing together - I imagine it's quite

> euphoric. The pull of the crowd, mass

> participation, united in one purpose...can't you

> just support a football team instead?

Thank you for your advice on footie BB. I have a friend that attends everyweek at Hillsong and she loves it and seems perfectly ok. She has made lots of friends from going there too, just to let you know.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

"Alpha prays on the weak" - freudian slip of the week

I would put a question mark in but I?m tzping on a german kezboard which is verz peculiar!