Harris Primary (East Dulwich) feedback so far...?

[Family Room Moderator]

Having read through this thread I agree that there are a small number of posters who are contributing nothing but stress for parents who have, or are about to have, children at the school.

Please refrain from using this thread as a political soapbox, or a place to unleash hidden agendas.

Apologies if the thread no longer flows nicely, I've had to hide a number of messages throughout.

[ksh]

Thank you, Moderator.

And yes, I agree with the sensible people on this. Let's just call it a day on this thread & stick with internal communication set up by the school, parents or PTA. See you all soon!

[championhill]

Martspec, I get sick and tired of the same old posts from parents knocking schools they know very little about. Being in education for the past 20 years it is the same old story about parents getting hot under the collar about how good schools are. I bet you have no idea how hard Jo (head teacher) works the fact that she has her own children and the sacrifices she has made to ensure children in her care receive the best possible education. It is easy to knock a school as they have no right of reply particularly when you do it from the confines of your own home behind a computer screen!

My suggestion to you and your worried friends is this: Go and see Jo and talk to her and get involved with the school (whether it's this school or another). If you don't like something then don't just sit there and moan go and do something constructive about it (and that doesn't include writing posts on forums spreading gossip which is counter productive). It seems to me you have a fixed mindset where things can not improve, you should shift that to a growth mindset where obstacles can be overcome with a positive approach. Schools are not perfect and they often get things wrong (how many times have you made a mistake at work?) but what they don't need is parents who are always keen to jump on the band wagon.

I know Jo has given a huge amount of time to get things right at Harris and she has an excellent track record and the parents should be safe in the knowledge they have a head teacher who cares passionately about the lives of the children she is responsible for. Staffing issues exist in every school and I am sure Jo is making sure she is getting the staff she feels will move the school forward. As for the planning for the new school site what you need to realise that some actions are beyond the control of the school and you should look closer at our elected councillors and politicians rather than blame the school.

So in conclusion stop your moaning and tell your friends to get involved. Schools need support from parents, this is often forgotten. The single biggest influence on a child's education is the parental support of the school. I remember a few years ago no-one wanted to send their children to Kingsdale and it took forward thinking parents to get get behind the school and now parents are disappointed that they don't get in!

[martspec]

Champion Hill: As I've already made my point (also because I am definitely not interested in gossip, politics or supporting any anti Harris sentiments)I had no intention of making another comment on this thread.

But.....as you have signed up just to respond to my comments I feel it is only polite for me to respond to you too.

I'm not sure what you are trying to get across via your rant???

Do all head teachers & school teachers not work hard plus many even have have their own children.I believe the last headteacher also worked hard unless you know different?

Just to clarify, all I was doing is giving prospective parents another perspective by sharing my friend's experience of this school.As I have already stated, my friend is unhappy & feels the school was better before all the changes & uncertainty. She is unhappy to lose the last head teacher as well as a class teacher within a short time.She wants her child (if she can find another suitable school) to continue her education else where.She feels intimidated by some parents at this school so does not want to be targeted by them & is happy for me to share this on her behalf.While some people feel this is a great school, she does not!Parents should make up their own minds about what is right for their child.Whether your child starts at this school or another one, as a parent I can say that sometimes you only get a feel for a school & how it operates once your child is at the school.Maybe this time next year you will also be looking for another school or maybe you will be happy with your choice. Best of luck to all parents with their choice of school.Have a nice day!

[landsberger]

It's a bit naughty for the mods to go around hiding/deleting all the anti-Harris comments and leave the comments slagging people off who have issues with Harris on there. Wasn't the idea of the original OP to get an idea about the schools?

And a bit remiss of people to say they "aren't helpful And are clearly from people who have no real facts about the schools". I can assure you I personally have more than enough facts about the school(s). This is classic forum behaviour - also posters slagging off people making "negative comments" - well a comment can be positive, neutral, r negative, if people don't want to hear negative comments, they should say so in advance. As for people 'scouring forums to make comments on and being weird" - don't we all look at forums and occasionally make comments where we have some views of knowledge on? If you check my comment history, you will see I do not make a habit of making negative comments at all.

The OP DID ask what people thought, but obviously had already made their mind up. Which is fair enough, but that's not what the original post said.

In terms of the building work at the Police Station, I don't actually think Harris want to proceed at risk. They presumably want to ensure they have full planning permission before proceeding with any major expenditure.

This is the application

http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk:8190/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_STHWR_DCAPR_9557974

It was submitted just prior to Xmas, but has not been determined by the Council yet - the consultation expired in March. There are a number of issues to be addressed, not least traffic and parking - it would be a highly unusual place for a primary school, not that necessarily is a bad thing, but there will be a circle to be squared long term on Lordship Lane if the school is to move there, as I presume the residents and/or businesses there may also have a view - positive or negative. The school has underrecruited again this year - one would hope a permanent site may address the popularity issue.

[Mariamadeit]

The planning committee are meeting in June and are expected to sign off on the building work so that it can commence in July.

I think the issue here is that the op asked for feedback from parents at the school, not speculative comments or hearsay.

The two reception classes are expected to be full.

[landsberger]

The school was certainly nowhere near full on primary offer day, that much I do know, but may be being filled by lates and people who did not get in elsewhere. This, on occasion, has made for an unstable school cohort. I do hope there is some clarity around the planning decision - as far as I am aware, the council's perspective is a cautious yes with a fairly extensive list of caveats. Councillors will be wary of the situation that arose in Bromley where the same sponsor didn't manage to get planning permission to opening, and this was certainly nothing to do with ideology - Bromley are not known for their antipathy towards free schools and academies. I think Harris felt they were somehow immune from normal considerations and one hopes they have learnt from this episode.

[Norfolkvillas]

I was at the termly parent forum evening yesterday and Jo confirmed 57 out of the 60 places had confirmed and they were working through their waiting list.

Landsberger you'll be able to see this of course when you attend the welcome evening for new parents this week, won't you? Oh no, hang on - you won't be there, as you're not a parent at the school, or in fact anything to do with the school at all, are you? So all your confident claims about undersubscribed this and failing that are nothing but fabricated trolling. It seems a funny way to enjoy yourself, but whatever floats your boat, I guess!

[landsberger]

Norfolkvillas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I was at the termly parent forum evening yesterday and Jo confirmed 57 out of the 60 places had confirmed and they > were working through their waiting list.

There's a fair bit of churn, as people find other places and appeals elsewhere are successful bith inside and outside the borough.

> Landsberger you'll be able to see this of course

> when you attend the welcome evening for new

> parents this week, won't you? Oh no, hang on - you

> won't be there, as you're not a parent at the

> school

So, only people in your rather narrow band of stakeholders are allowed an opinion ? And, seemingly, a positive opinion only.

> So all your confident claims

> about undersubscribed this and failing that are

> nothing but fabricated trolling.

I can assure you they are not. The roll of the school - a matter of public record - in the year of opening was less than 50.

> It seems a funny

> way to enjoy yourself, but whatever floats your

> boat, I guess!

No-one goes onto a forum to 'enjoy themselves'. There are also people who cannot brook another opinion, sadly.

[LaurenTB]

After reading all of the messages I am feeling very confused.

Unfortunately, my son did not get any of our preferred choices for the intake of 2015 september. We am feeling very gutted about this as Fairlawn (1st choice) performs extremely well academically and has an Outstanding rating. However, we have been offered a place at Harris East Dulwich, which we did not apply to.

This is rather worrisome, because it suggests that the school is undersubscribed and makes me question why? I understand this is a 'new school' but this is the second intake.I know a large amount of children from my sons nursery whom have been offered a place at Harris and they did not even apply for the school.

After investigating further into the school online, I understand that the school still does not have confirmed planning permission for the permanent site and they have not yet been reviewed by Ofsted. Again this is rather startling that a school can be formed and still does not have planning permission which may result in moving to another temporary site and then furthermore to the temporary site.

Nevertheless, I did attempt to put all of my negative feeling aside and decided to view the school whilst the children were vacant. On arrival, I was greeted by the new head teacher (former head teacher of Peckham Park Primary School) who seems more than pleasant. The other two parents and I had an informal meeting whereby information regarding the permeant site was disclosed. My findings were correct, there is no permanent site planning permission and the children need to be out of the school by July 2016 due to legations regarding the length of time a temporary site can be open. The head teacher made it very clear that whether the school opens where the old police station is on Lordship Lane or whether it is somewhere else they will be moved even if it is to another temporary site. This suggests that regardless of whether the new site is ready the children will be moved. Meaning the children may be uprooted another two times?

Moving onto teachers, thankfully all teachers are now permanent which is definitely a positive. Additionally, there is three teachers who are able to teach reception classes which means that less supply staff will be recruited due to sickness. There was a vast amount of resources which all looked very clean and new. However, there was no computers which is worrisome to me as I appreciate the importance of technology. All of the schools I have taught at and viewed have the use of computers.

Furthermore, I feel there is lack of lessons being taught. When I asked what additional languages were taught, the head teacher attempted to put me off of the idea of additional languages " We understand that children who learn additional languages find it hard because their parents can rarely help them at home". Of which I replied, "We can learn together". She then replied, " oh well, we are waiting for more funding to put this into place and we need to figure out what language would be best, also we understand that the children are still young to be learning additional languages". Ok so granted, I preferred the funding answer opposed to the first one. But, when is the funding going to be supplied. I don't really want to wait for funding. I would like my son to attend a school where this is already offered. Again, I know of many schools that offer additional languages in preparation for secondary schools ( Fairlawn- French, Childeric- Spanish, Goodrich - Mandarin. Also, I do not think that age should be the factor that is stopping the children from learning additional languages, children's brains are more accepting of languages at a young age. My son has been learning Spanish at his nursery since he was two.

Physical Education- I understand after my visit that there is not structured PE lessons, also there is a lack of their own space. Understandably the primary school are able to use the tennis courts if they are free. But what about when they are not free? There is no sports being taught, the head teacher used the age factor for the reason of this. "There is more free play being taught" she said. Which I am a true believer in, but there needs to be more preparation for year one right? Sorry to compare to other primary schools but thats the easiest way to gage whether they are providing a good thriving environment for our children. Many other schools have one PE teacher for the whole school who will arrange certain sports for certain seasons. The head teacher did make me aware that they are looking into recruiting a PE teacher but again they are waiting for more funding.

Another area they are lacking in is extra curricular activities. Yep, they do have after school clubs whereby they can play. But they do not have the option to learn, an instrument, rugby, handwriting, cook, knit, karate, attend the choir and this is something that all other schools do offer. Why should I settle for a school that does not offer this? Additionally the do not offer swimming which the head teacher put down to age. This factor really did begin to grate on me after a while.

After attending the visit I was left feeling more worried than ever. I am currently training to become an Educational Phycologist and I understand how much of an effect a primary school experience can have on you. I am left feeling appalled that a school can open when it is unable to provide necessary equipment to compete with other schools that are performing exceptionally well. I have heard of a few children who attend there and their parents comments are " they are coping" and " they are getting by". I most certainly do not want my child to cope or get by, I want him to strive in a settled environment whereby he is able to strive.

Our only other option is now private school, thankfully he had two assessments for Oakfield and Rosemead and was successful with both. I have never posted my thoughts so publicly but I was curious to know other peoples thoughts and whether anyone else is currently in my unfortunate position.

[Monkey]

Hi Lauren,

You do have a long list of requirements! To reassure you on some of your worries, my daughter is in year 1 at Goodrich and she's not learning any foreign languages. I am also not aware of any primary schools taking the kids swimming other than in year 4 when it is required by the curriculum. Goodrich does have lots of activities but it's an established school, with huge premises. Rome was not built in a day.

If you don't like what you saw, you need to hope for a place at Fairlawn or go private. It could well be that private is the answer for you.

Good luck.

[redjam]

Second what Monkey says. My kids are at a different school but they don't do swimming until Year 3. Nor do they do karate, knitting (!) or music lessons in school (there is a dedicated music teacher but they don't have individual instrument lessons - though I know that some schools do offer this).

Some things - like handwriting and PE - are part of all schools' curriculum and I can't believe they won't cover those things in their normal school day. 'Free play' is standard for Reception children. My kids have learnt a bit of French at their school, but not much. So yes, I'd be concerned about the availability of the premises and the lack of computers, but it doesn't sound like it's all bad.

Does sound like you might be happier going private though!

[Caroline_S]

The after school club offers football, ballet and Spanish. In school, the children have weekly recorder lessons every Wednesday with a dedicated music teacher who comes across from Harris Girls. They don't have desktop computers but they do have a massive pile of brand new iPads which the kids have access to throughout the week.

[Mariamadeit]

The current reception class is undersubscribed but that is not surprising as there wasn't a school until the end of August last year. The next reception class is expected to be full, but it is clear that the site and the uncertainty over the new site is a worry for people. The planning meeting in June is expected to sign off the plans so that work can start in July, which should help with this.

The head is currently organising a consultation on what language to offer in year one, i am happy with this as reception is so full of other things for children to get to grips with.

Classes do have a pe class in which they change into their kit and do an activity, there has been dance and athletics type activities so I am unsure what you are expecting beyond this. They use a room indoors if the weather is bad or the tennis courts, the pe classes are timetabled to use the tennis courts so whilst they aren't available 100% of the time, they do use them at their allocated time, which would be the same in any other school.

Regarding lessons, there is phonics, reading, maths, literacy lessons as well as the free flow tasks that are all again very similar to other schools, the national curriculum is being followed and the opportunities for learning are engaging. I am unsure what you are expecting, but this is what schools do.

Recorder lessons and singing happen on Wednesday afternoons which a teacher from e girls school, all children have a recorder to practice at home.

I would not expect children to be taken swimming until further up the school, however they have been on a number of trips including to the zoo, wildlife centre, library, farm and shortly to the seaside.

As I have Sid previously, I am very happy with my son's progress at school, he is well settled and enjoys school, he is certainly doing more an "coping" or "putting up with" school. It seems to me that maybe this school isn't right for you, not every school will suit every family.

[LaurenTB]

@Monkey, My requirements are from what I have seen whilst working in other schools in southwark and bromley boroughs. I would like to think that all schools have the same standard of teaching and resources. Regarding the additional languages, the Head Of Harris has a child in Goodrich and made me aware that her child is learning Mandarin but their language choice is due to change so maybe this is why. I apperciate Rome was not built in a day but why should Harris be allowed to teach children in a school that is not comparable to other schools? Why should parents like me have to wait for 'Rome' to be built? And when will 'Rome' be built? Before my son leaves for secondary school maybe? I really do hope my son gets into Fairlawn he is number 3 on the list and a little further down on the Goodrich list too so that is very hopeful. Thank you for the Good Luck.

@Redjam, I understand that many schools do not start swimming below the year group of year 3 but this is because it is very difficult to travel with a class of children to and form the location. However, I do know that Harris has its own swimming pools and I know of other primary schools whom have a swimming pool on site and are taught swimming from year one. I completely agree that some schools are different. Nevertheless I was actually referring to swimming as an extra curricular activity as well as the knitting and music lessons. As mentioned prior, Harris do have PE lessons however their is a lack of sport taught so they are meeting the 'curriculum' but there seems to be lack of structure. Thankfully your children have been given the opportunity to learn French in primary school with will definitely enhance their cognitive development and will benefit them when they move onto secondary school. I take on board your recommendation regarding private school however I will be much more happy if he gets into Fairlawn.

@Caroline, Oh really I visited the school around 6 weeks ago now and the head teacher made me aware that there was no additional languages, no football and no ballet. But they 'might' implement this when they receive more funding. Have they implemented this more recently? Yes I agree iPads are excellent, however computers are still a necessity.

@Mariamadeit, I am in no doubt that the new reception class will be full, but this is not because it is over subscribed. This is because children who did not receive their choices (e.g. me and many peers) have been offered a place regardless. This suggests that the school is still under subscribed otherwise there would not of been any places to offer to people that did not even apply to the school. Regarding the planning meeting, the Head Teacher made it very clear that the school will not be built until at least september 2016. That is great news about the additional languages, will this be implemented for year ones in sep 2016 or is this reliant on new funding (as quoted by the head teacher)?

PE- during PE lessons, it would be expected to learn a type of sport whereby they can improve their gross motor skills like many other schools do. Gymnastics/netball/dance in the winter, athletics/football/rugby/ in the summer. Opposed to as the Head teacher explained "they get to run around". I fail to recognise where Harris can teach inside? Or do they teach this inside the Girls school?

I dont understand why children should not learn to swim from a young age, and why this is not expected. As I have said previously I was speaking about extra curricular activities in regards to swimming. The trips sound like fun.

I am very happy you are pleased with your sons progress, I really appreciate replies from parents who have children in Harris because they will be the best judges.

I am in no doubt that my son would be happy here but surely my son could strive even further in an environment that is more suitable and filled with endless opportunities like other state maintained schools. I don't feel that Harris are providing what other schools are. Maybe they should of waited for more funding before the school was opened.

[Dude909]

Having been to the opening day yesterday and having a daughter starting at the school I wanted to respond.

Firstly this thread was started to give reassurance to prospective parents, (and it gave us reassurance) im not sure why people come in with negative posts none based on experience

I was impressed with the headmistress and the steps that they have made to form a school, everything was setup better than I could have imagined for a temporary area

The School Building - in my opinion it will happen because it has to happen but there?s no point in debating this until after the decision in June. If approved the school will be on lordship lane and all of a sudden will be that much more attractive.

So what if the school is undersubscribed, it may mean your child will get more attention. It was also undersubscribed because East Dulwich is full of snobs who look down on Harris , just read through the thread before you say that?s not true.

Computers - They have thirty ipads which if you understand the importance of computers you will understand they ARE computers

No extracurricular activities ? we already signed up for football, ballet and Spanish lessons through the school (Oh yes that?s a language)

No instruments? They will have weekly singling lessons and learn to play recorder.

We all want the best for our children, for me and my wife that means being positive, encouraging , showing them what it means to be part of something, to be happy with what they have and helping them to learn. Obviously the school may not be right for some parents but I suspect for most children it will do just fine

[James Barber]

Well said Dude909.

When the reception pupil crisis was calcualted to be 215-235 by 2015 Southwark Council had no plans to close that gap. I wasn't in favour of academies/free schools but as the only show in town for what must be a dozen years now since the Tony Blair education act, compunded by Gove, we put political posturing to one side. Sadly many still haven't from reading some of the posts on this thread.

We asked local schools whether they would be willing to open a free school or two to close that gap.

The Harris Federation were the ONLY provider willing to open a primary school and under pressure from us said they would consider a second. We persuaded the Judith Kerr Primary school to choose Dulwich rather than their preferred Rotherhithe or Lambeth. Since then several have joined the bandwagon since which is great and we've given them lots of practical help as well. We didn't know this would happen later and alone it would not have solved that gap.

Without Harris responding to our requests, people signing up in droves, and Harris agreeing to help our community we would now have 120 families and another 60 on the way ver year with no school places for their children.

So please, get behind this school as we all need it to be successful at serving our local comumnity.

[Bisou]

Dude909 We too attended the open day yesterday and were happy with what we saw and heard.

I said I was not contributing to this thread anymore but as there seems to be some positive parents on here I will second what you have just said.

Please could you let me know who and where you signed up for the extra curricular stuff as we would be keen to do the same.

Feel free to PM me.

Thank you

[James Barber]

Last night Southwark Planning a omitted granted planning permission for the permanent school on the former EAt Dukwich Police station.

Many parents submitted supporting comments.

So the next step is demolition starting 5 August and then completing the build by the end of August 2016. Very exciting to see this project we started 4 years ago take another big step forward.

[Rachael]

Was a decision made on parking for residents of Landcroft Road or will that follow? And is there anywhere can we find information giving more details of the timetable for demolition work? Thanks!

[Katy Tonbridge]

I was expecting the police station demolition to have been well under way by now. Has it been delayed?

[Mariamadeit]

nope, planning permission was granted at the very end of the summer term so they have been working on preparation for demolition which I think is scheduled for September.

[Rachael]

Does anyone know where to find information on the schedule for demolition?

[landsberger]

Only the school (or Harris Federation HQ) will know that.

T: 0203 772 4573

[email protected]

or

http://www.harrisfederation.org.uk/6/contact-us

or

[email protected]

or

Twitter: @HarrisFed

or

Telephone: 0208 253 7777

Fax: 0208 253 7778

[James Barber]

The Section 106 was hoped to be signed yesterday but missed the Secretary of State red box so it will be Tuesday when signed. This then triggers demolition and the contractors are waiting in the wings to get cracking.