Harris Primary (East Dulwich) feedback so far...?

[Bisou]

Thank You Mariamadeit. Great to hear.

[Fuschia]

And I am afraid that this school is very much an example of the current problems in education - free schools being set up by private companies on a 'who you know' basis rather than as part of a coordinated system. The companies churn out spin re demand for the schools - most parents would prefer a proper community school.

[Mariamadeit]

Fuschia do you have a child at the school?

As I understand it, Harris were the only people who wanted to create a school when James Barber was spearheading a campaign to create a new school in the area. And I am thankful that both James and Harris were able to create this school for us. They have a proven track record of running schools, unlike other "free school" groups. I am not sure exactly what "current problems in education" you are referring to and what your reference is regarding "most parents would prefer a proper community school" but all this negativity is very unhelpful. This thread is about sharing experiences of the school to help prospective parents make a decision on where to send their child. So far, all of the negativity appears to be coming from people with no first hand experience.

[martspec]

I'm not interested in any school politics.

I do not have any wish to join any anti Harris groups & there is no agenda on my part.

Bisou - yes many people are clearly anti Harris, they have a bad reputation & they are slated on a regular basis by the media too. But as I have already stated I am indifferent to the fact that this is a Harris school.

My friend is unhappy & she tells me so are many other parents. As a parent myself, It is important to receive a true picture when making such a big decision. It is equally essential to look beyond the spin! Regardless of whether it is this school or another.

This particular school has many issues & is not as great as it is keen to make out. The bottom line is to be viable for funding etc, new schools need bums on seats. Whether it's a Harris school or not parents should not be duped into believing whatever spin a school & their handful of supporters churn out. As I have said in my first post parents should do their own research & decide for themselves. Picnics & walks in the park are all great but the important factors need to be addressed such as the future of the school, the quality of education the new children will receive on this temporary site (with no solid dates for the new site) plus addressing real issues why parents are unhappy & willing to uproot their children from a seemingly great school.

My friend is aware plus happy I have posted about the school as she wants other parents to understand that there are problems & the school community is far from happy. She has said she feels intimidated by these 'super supportive' parents at the school as do other parents who may have a different opinion from theirs. From these responses, I can actually see her point!

We all want the best for our children, please decide what is right for your child. If Harris is your choice than good luck but maybe have a back up plan just in case.

Happy Sunday to you all :)

[Curmudgeon]

When does the building work start on the old police station...there have been no signs

Are they knocking it down and rebuilding?

That's going to be a couple of years minimum isn't it?

[Shaggy]

As a parent of a primary school aged child and a former teacher, that's not really all that impressive. Just sounds like most schools.

The reason why there are small class sizes is because they are undersubscribed, so that'll change.

I would hope that all teachers would be friendly to parents. Don't mistake that with them being happy in their jobs.

Also, at the moment it appears to be a school with fewer than 50 pupils, so brilliance should come as standard.

Mariamadeit Wrote:

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> We turned down a local school in favour of Harris

> last year, the advantages as I see them to Harris

> over other schools are:

> 1. Much smaller class sizes but the same or

> better teacher ratios (though it looks like the

> new reception class will be full)

> 2. Teachers and teaching assistants (some of

> which also hold teaching qualifications) are

> friendly, good at their jobs and committed to the

> school (the first head left as a result of a

> Harris internal reshuffle which is not expected to

> happen again, he is still involved in the school

> and one teacher left unexpectedly over easter, as

> explained above).

> 3. The Head is experienced and full of ideas for

> reaching the target of outstanding when OFSTED

> visit, she is balanced and approachable and is

> very well liked by the children and parents. She

> is at the school gate almost every day and is very

> hands on with the children.

> 4. The open plan nature of the reception class

> allows for free flow between the two areas and the

> space is changed regularly with various activities

> set up for the children. The space is far bigger

> than other classrooms I viewed on open days.

> 5. Although the outdoor space is small, children

> do have access to more space (tennis courts for

> PE) and it is very well set up with various

> resources, parents were involved in planting and

> developing the space.

> 6. As it is a small school, the children know

> each other, there are no issues with much older

> children bumping into little ones etc as I have

> heard can be a problem in other schools. The

> teachers know all of the children well.

> 7. The resources, books etc are new and well

> cared for and the Head has been adding to the

> resources regularly, my son particularly enjoys

> the building area which has toy cement mixers,

> bricks, hard hats etc.

> 8. The PTA has recently been set up and has been

> very successful in raising extra funds for the

> school, which shows the commitment of parents to

> helping the school.

> 9. With the small number of children, lots of

> trips have taken place and are due to take place

> including zoo, farm, library, wildlife centre

> etc.

> 10. The Head of our school and the Girl's school

> have been working together to ensure that the best

> opportunities are provided for our school, for

> example, at Christmas, the children performed eir

> nativity play on the Girl's school stage, they are

> also able to use the girl's school facilities.

>

> Yes there are issues with the new site and there

> are challenges to be overcome with fitting the new

> reception class on the current site, but I am

> confident that the Head is doing everything

> possible to ensure that this goes as smoothly as

> it can.

> Yes there are people who have been offered places

> at their preferred school and have subsequently

> moved, but this is normal around here isn't it?

> Yes there are parents at school who see the

> negatives rather than the positives, but isn't

> that the case everywhere too?

> Yes there have been teething problems but nothing

> you wouldn't expect from a new school, the water

> pipes froze and school was shut for a day, a

> member of staff left... All of these things have

> been managed professionally and parents have been

> informed.

>

> Not every school is going to suit every child and

> the difficulty is that parents must decide for

> their family, what is going to be best, it is a

> difficult decision but I can say wholeheartedly

> that we are very pleased with the decision we made

> in choosing Harris, my son is happy and thriving

> at the school and for me, that is the best

> outcome.

[Norfolkvillas]

Curmudgeon, I haven't a crystal ball, so don't know for sure whether we'll be at the permanent site when we're meant to be, and the people controlling the schedule are the DfE, not Harris (I'd actually have more faith if it was Harris controlling the timelines!). I do know the following though:

- The school has said we'll be transferring to the site for the start of the September 2016 term

- The project is still on schedule (ie planning application has been submitted and awaiting hearing)

- The police station is being pulled down and rebuilt, but the company doing the build have loads of other similar sized school projects on their website with build times completed in 12 months, so it must be possible, although I too originally assumed it would require a longer timescale.

I guess I do have faith that, whatever happens, the school will find a workable solution for our kids. If that means staggered playtimes, or using the girls school's dining room, that doesn't sound particularly disastrous to me. My son has certainly loved his trips across to the girls school to use their cookery classrooms, being on the big stage for their nativity etc.

I can see that there is an element of faith needed though, when it comes to the move date, and can understand why some would find that offputting.

martspec, welcome to the forum - I can see you registered specifically to join this thread. I hope prospective parents will take with a pinch of salt your jumbled confusion of different accusations (poor teaching? bad reputation?) towards a school you admit not having anything to do with.

Bisou, ref your question about free-flow classrooms in reception, I was under the impression from when I was looking round various schools last year that this was now considered best practice wherever physically possible as it allows teachers and TAs to split the two classes into smaller teaching groups so that learning can be tailored to different abilities,stages and paces - especially important in reception where even the starting ages between just 4 and almost 5 creates such a huge range of ability and aptitude, even before you add in any other factors.

[martspec]

Norfolkvillas - You are correct I did specifically join to comment on this thread after reading the comments. But that does not make any of my views less valid than anybody else's.Why are you so worried about prospective parents hearing about other parent's experiences of this school? Surely it's not just all the happy people who are allowed to have a say? Parents are entitled to make their own decisions based on what they feel is right for their child.

Having a close friend as a parent at this school, living in the area & being a parent myself allows me to make these observations on this forum. An organisation gets a bad reputation from bad practice not from comments made on forums.

[Mariamadeit]

@shaggy I am also a teacher and have worked locally, in other counties and abroad. Yes it does sound like other schools doesn't it, which is why I am unclear on the negativity that seems to be being banded about. For us, the small class sizes have been advantageous and as there will only be reception and year one from September, that provides opportunities to the school that other schools do not necessarily have.

@martspec yes everybody has a right to their say, but so far you haven't actually given any tangible examples of problems, other than there being supportive parents. May I suggest that your "friend" either does this herself or brings it up with the head or via the parent forums that the head has set up for these circumstances so that the school has an opportunity to address them.

[ksh]

Thank you to all of the current parents of the school who have answered my thread and made useful comments. Thank you also for making us prospective parents feel welcome in the school community.

To anyone who is on here just to slate a brand new school that they have nothing to do with themselves, your views (whilst you are of course entitled to give them if you really feel you need to) are not helpful. This is because:

a) you have nothing to do with the school and so are relying on hearsay and/or your own political views; and

b) funnily enough, the parents of pupils who have been offered a place in September do not have much other choice in the matter as East Dulwich is a busy place with lots of kids. We therefore are not shopping around, picking and choosing a school that is perfect in every way. Generally, we are doing what most others around us are doing and sending our children to our local school. If this is such a terrible thing which you feel you need to try and put us off, I'd suggest it is you that has a problem, not the school.

Frankly, I think it is a bit weird scouring the forum looking for stuff to make unhelpful negative comments on. I'd have thought people would have better things to do with their time.

Like the other people on here, I of course want to hear the negative stuff IF it comes first hand from current or past parents. Otherwise, I'd rather hear how parents are working with the new head to make a great new school.

Goodness, who'd have thought such a simple question would lead to such debate!

[Bisou]

KSH. I am with you on this. Some of the comments are pretty unhelpful and do clearly have another agenda.

We are in the same boat please feel free to PM me.

Bisou.

[Sol]

Haven't seen any work started at the police station yet. I will be interested to see how this is going to work; it seems many people is happy with the temporary side which is good. Having the park in front of the school is a big plus.

[Peckhamryemum]

Our son will be starting reception in September and we couldn't be happier, both my older children attend Harris Schools in East Dulwich (boys & girls) and we have had no problems, in fact our daughter left the girls school with all A*-B grades at GCSE and is now about to Finish her 1st yr of A Levels, so I resent all the Anti Harris comments. They aren't helpful And are clearly from people who have no real facts about the schools.

Reading the comments posted by the current parents has made us feel very welcome already.

[landsberger]

Believe me, Peckhamryemum, I have plenty of evidence and facts about Harris schools, and it's all available out there for free, on the web.

Bottom performing secondary school in Southwark ? Harris Peckham, 50%

2nd bottom ? Harris Bermondsey - 51%

Harris Girls, reaches the dizzy heights of 56%, and 6th from bottom.

Southwark average - 65% (including Harris)

Harris average - 57%

Anyway, we are talking about Primaries here, are we not? Only one Harris School has KS2 results (Harris Peckham) - 78%. Southwark average - 81%. This borough would be WAY off better without Harris. Just ask any Harris staff member why they have such a massive turnover of staff.

[Peckhamryemum]

What a bitter person you are.

I do know plenty of Harris teachers and as with all schools teachers opinions vary. I work in Primary (not for Harris before you ask!) and the picture you're painting is simply a very negative one.

I mentioned the secondary as that's my experience, all my daughters friends recieved similar results and my daughter turned down 6th forms like Charter and opted to stay at HGAED.

I'm really not sure why you keep choosing to bash people with your statistics, the thread was supposed to be an opportunity for new parents to get opinions of the school from parents already there, of which you are neither.

[Mariamadeit]

Welcome peckhamryemum and sol?

There is expected to be more info re the police station site after the election when things can get moving again.

[first mate]

Sol, why is having the school in front of the park a big plus?

[landsberger]

Peckhamryemum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What a bitter person you are.

Sad that you are judgmental about someone you don't know. But fairly typical of the kind of chippy, defensive attitude ones comes to expect of some. You also state "people who have no real facts about the schools" - and then I quote you, well, facts. Make your mind up.

> I do know plenty of Harris teachers and as with

> all schools teachers opinions vary.

So do I. I know that there is a massive turnover at Harris schools (not just in this borough) because they have unrealistic expectations of teachers, and are completely unsupportive. Harris also do not engage with local Councils, and this proves very problematic, here and elsewhere.

> I work in Primary (not for Harris before you ask!) and the

> picture you're painting is simply a very negative

> one.

I work in education too (in case you hadn't guessed), and the picture, whilst negative, is the ungarnished truth.

> I mentioned the secondary as that's my experience,

> all my daughters friends recieved similar results

> and my daughter turned down 6th forms like Charter

> and opted to stay at HGAED.

Fine, and I am sure kids do well at many schools they attend, but the figures do speak for themselves. in 2006, Harris schools were 92% occupied, that's now 84% (and falling) - 16% vacancies, even with their covertly selective admissions policies. In the same time, Southwark secondary schools have gone from 99.8% occupancy to 100.2%.

> I'm really not sure why you keep choosing to bash

> people with your statistics, the thread was

> supposed to be an opportunity for new parents to

> get opinions of the school from parents already

> there, of which you are neither.

I love this "I am a parent and you are not, and therefore you have no right to comment" attitude. How do you know where I live and how many kids I have ? Terrible me with my statistics, eh ?

[lenster]

I love a good statistic as much as the next person, but unfortunately that doesn't help me find out more about this particular school and any negative points. From my understanding of posts above points of concern are that a teacher left suddenly (no idea what reason was), facilities will be an issue once new reception take over current lunch room (I was aware of that from the school tour), planning is not yet in place (yes the move date is one of the bigger concerns for me) and some parents are unhappy (but we don't know why). Oh and it's Harris.

Calls for parents to do their research doesn't really help when we've got all the info we can from the school, council and parents who have posted positive feedback. Unless the parents who aren't happy tell us why (on here or by pm) I'm not sure what more I can do in terms of "research".

Anyone with positive/negative experience of this school (not just Harris in general), please feel free to pm me. Thanks.

[Ruth Campbell]

I really don't want to get into a row about the benefits of Harris or other elements of the education system. All I am able to reiterate is how happy we are with our school.

What seems amazing to me is that the very anti Harris argument fails to take into account that we are in an area that is massively short of primary places. We live within 400m of a good and an outstanding school and last year we got into neither. As such, without the new Harris we would have been at a school 1.5 miles away in a failing school.

Instead, we are in a school that I can walk to, where my son is happy and thriving and is giving him a great education.

Why you seem to need to put down our own experiences because of your dislike of Harris is beyond me. We can either look at the school and be positive, or we can try to find fault. We could equally look at every school in the borough with such a view and no doubt find fault.

Anyway, this will be my last post on this thread. I hope that new parents can see that the majority of the parents are very happy with the school and look forward to meeting the new intake in september.

[landsberger]

-------------------------------------------------------

> I love a good statistic as much as the next

> person, but unfortunately that doesn't help me

> find out more about this particular school

Strange, as it seems many parents are obsessed with school league tables, which are statistics, pure and simple. They rarely, if ever, look at the same stats for value added.

> and any

> negative points. From my understanding of posts

> above points of concern are that a teacher left

> suddenly (no idea what reason was), facilities

> will be an issue once new reception take over

> current lunch room (I was aware of that from the

> school tour), planning is not yet in place (yes

> the move date is one of the bigger concerns for

> me) and some parents are unhappy (but we don't

> know why). Oh and it's Harris.

Problems run deeper than that, in reality - Harris have both real problems, and a problem with PR. There will always be children who thrive wherever they go. There's very real doubt the school can function on the planned site.

> Calls for parents to do their research doesn't

> really help when we've got all the info we can

> from the school, council and parents who have

> posted positive feedback.

Well, parents haven't done the research, have they ?

[Peckhamryemum]

landsberger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Peckhamryemum Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > What a bitter person you are.

>

> Sad that you are judgmental about someone you

> don't know. But fairly typical of the kind of

> chippy, defensive attitude ones comes to expect of

> some. You also state "people who have no real

> facts about the schools" - and then I quote you,

> well, facts. Make your mind up.

>

> > I do know plenty of Harris teachers and as

> with

> > all schools teachers opinions vary.

>

> So do I. I know that there is a massive turnover

> at Harris schools (not just in this borough)

> because they have unrealistic expectations of

> teachers, and are completely unsupportive. Harris

> also do not engage with local Councils, and this

> proves very problematic, here and elsewhere.

>

> > I work in Primary (not for Harris before you

> ask!) and the

> > picture you're painting is simply a very

> negative

> > one.

>

> I work in education too (in case you hadn't

> guessed), and the picture, whilst negative, is the

> ungarnished truth.

>

> > I mentioned the secondary as that's my

> experience,

> > all my daughters friends recieved similar

> results

> > and my daughter turned down 6th forms like

> Charter

> > and opted to stay at HGAED.

>

> Fine, and I am sure kids do well at many schools

> they attend, but the figures do speak for

> themselves. in 2006, Harris schools were 92%

> occupied, that's now 84% (and falling) - 16%

> vacancies, even with their covertly selective

> admissions policies. In the same time, Southwark

> secondary schools have gone from 99.8% occupancy

> to 100.2%.

>

> > I'm really not sure why you keep choosing to

> bash

> > people with your statistics, the thread was

> > supposed to be an opportunity for new parents

> to

> > get opinions of the school from parents already

> > there, of which you are neither.

>

> I love this "I am a parent and you are not, and

> therefore you have no right to comment" attitude.

> How do you know where I live and how many kids I

> have ? Terrible me with my statistics, eh ?

If you'd read what I wrote you would have seen that I wrote that you are not a parent at the school. I didn't say you weren't a parent at all.

It just seems that you have far too much time on your hands if you spend all your time looking for stats to let us know what a crappy school you think the new Harris is. Maybe you could use all that spare time to help me iron all my children's Harris uniforms 😂

The school is here and it's staying. I'm looking forward to getting to know all the supportive parents this school seems to have.

This is my last word on the subject.

[hpsaucey]

Caroline_S Wrote:

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> Also, what's special about Harris compared with

> other primaries is that it's so tiny it's like

> sending them to another nursery - lots of lovely

> new toys (literally) and no enormous children

> rampaging about!!

One of the good things about having 'enormous' children - i.e older ones around, is that younger and older years can ideally learn from/learn to care for each other.The younger ones can dream of attempting things they hadn't though posslbe/ thought about doing/ the older ones can be taught to help the younger ones engage in 'younger' games they might otherwise think now'too young' for them. All schools have to start somewhere with an intake however and for some kids being the biggest/ oldest ones going through the school might be a good thing for them. I'd hate anyone reading to thing that 'enormous children rampaging about' is what inevitably happens in primary schools or a necessarily a bad thing :,(

[landsberger]

Peckhamryemum Wrote:

> If you'd read what I wrote you would have seen

> that I wrote that you are not a parent at the

> school. I didn't say you weren't a parent at all.

So that means I am not entitled to an opinion, then ?

> It just seems that you have far too much time on

> your hands

So, it seems, do you.

> if you spend all your time looking for

> stats

If (as I said) I have these facts already (I work in education, remember ?) then I spent no time at all

> to let us know what a crappy school you

> think the new Harris is.

I think it's a potentially low achieving, unpopular school with limited recruitment that is a massive waste of money - MY taxpayer's (and Council tax payer's) money being lavished on a dodgy sponsor with close links to the governing coalition.

Maybe you could use all

> that spare time to help me iron all my children's

> Harris uniforms

Send them to me and we'll see what I can do.

> The school is here and it's staying.

At the present rate of recruitment, and the doubt over planning permission on Lordship Lane, I wouldn't be so sure. Harris Nunhead was apparently a "shoo-in" last year, and even received EFA permission to open, so where are they now ?

> I'm looking

> forward to getting to know all the supportive

> parents this school seems to have.

You may have a long wait

> This is my last word on the subject.

Like it was last time, it seems

[Bisou]

Myself and some (current and prospective)Harris school parents have tried to share and learn some useful information via this thread and it seems to have been hijacked by a few nutcases, who, thank the Lord have nothing to do with the school.

I am now leaving this thread but hope to meet and talk to some parents soon.

As for some of the other contributors, your imput has been really destructive not useful. You should be ashamed for using this as some platform for your own bitter diatribe when loving caring parents are trying to ascertain the best education for their children.

Bisou