Foxes on Thompson Road

[cate]

Yes Pommie, but not everyone wears gloves when in a/their garden................

[pommie]

well cate

if someone is pregnant and is trying to rid the garden of cat poo then they would need to wear gloves!!

[cate]

Pommie, your statement is rather simplistic and my point is that if you have a litter tray then you hopefully won't have to get rid of car poo in your garden. Then your cat poo won't be bothering anyone else, whether in your garden or in their garden. Equally not everyone who goes into a garden knows they are pregnant. You could do a bit of quick weeding and come into contact with some cat poo. You could be in someone else's garden and not know there is cat poo in there. I know a woman who had a disabled child due to toxoplasmosis. Her child is blind and suffers from learning difficulties. I would advise anyone thinking of pregnancy to be tested for immunity to toxopasmosis before conceiving. Even though I love cats, I still don't agree with people who think it is OK to let their cats poo everywhere due to them not having a litter tray. A cat won't use a litter tray if it is very dirty so it would be a bit of an effort to keep one clean, especially if you have five cats. Someone's cat used to come into the garden of where I used to live and regularly deposit a load of the 'runs' on nearly a daily basis. If their cat had been using a litter tray then they would have seen that something was wrong and taken the cat to the vet. I found out one of my cat's had a urinary infection by watching him use his litter tray and he was in pain. Took him to the vet's and he had crystals in his urine. Having pets equals being responsible.

[pommie]

cate

If someone was doing a quick bit of weeding, wouldnt they wear gloves anyway, i know i would as I wouldnt want mucky hands!!

I have no need to use a litter tray as all my cats go out and acually they use our garden probably 99% of the time. If people do not want cats messing in their garden then there are gadgets you can buy to stop cats coming into your garden in the first place. I have other peoples cats coming into our garden and using it as a toilet but unfortunately there is nothing I can do.

Do you expect everyone who has cats who go outside to have a litter tray in their house?

Also having a litter tray in my house is not possible as I have a small child.

[cate]

Pommie, What if you had visitors, children or adults to your house and they went in your garden. Would you expect them to put gloves on? I don't think so. How do you know your cats use your garden 99% of the time? Do you watch them all day? Not if you have a small child. Those gadgets that you mention do not work as I know people who have tried them. I would expect everyone who has a cat to have a litter tray, but that often isn't the way unfortunately. So you expect your cats to go out in the pouring rain and use your garden? How cruel. Many people have small children in the house and have a litter tray. What a bizarre reason for not having a litter tray. What about people who live in flats and who have cats that don't go out at all. You would need more than 1 litter tray in your house if you have 5 cats. I am guessing that you just can't be bothered to clean them out or teach your child not to touch them. You could always get the kind with hoods and flap doors. Or build a shelter just outside the back door with litter trays in it.

[pommie]

cate

For your information when we do have visitors to our house they dont go and start putting their hands in the garden soil...I mentioned about wearing gloves if someone was doing the gardening. I know my cats use my garden more than other peoples because i have seen them and i can see where they have actually gone in the garden. If my cats want to go out to the toilet then they go out. If its raining and they dont want to go out then they dont but one of my cats actually enjoys the rain and sits out in it. I am insulted that you assume that it is cruel for cats to out in all weathers. Do you actually own cats of your own?

I have had litter trays in my house before so I know all about cleaning litter trays out etc. People who have indoor cats HAVE to have litter trays as the cats have no way of getting outside.

I have owned cats for years and have fostered cats too so please do not tell me how i should look after my cats and what i need to look after them.

[snorky]

I can cope with fox shit, as unpleasant as it is - wild animals do this apparently

I cannot accomodate cat shit however- no tolerance for cats in the garden - mercenary animals who are the single biggest factor in ridding this country of its indigenous bird population, but this issue does impair my objectivity I suppose

cats are pets lite for selfish people- even a goldfish needs more work than a cat - if you dont have the time for a pet, then dont get one

[cate]

Pommie, Yes I own a cat, and in the past have had more than one cat. They are a big responsibility. By not having litter trays indoors you are forcing your cats to go outside in all weathers. How do you stop your small child from getting cat poo on their hands in your garden? And if you children as visitors, I doubt very much that you stand over them and watch their every move in your garden? My point about people in flats having to have litter trays was in response to your claim that you couldn't have a litter tray indoors because you had a small child. What kind of reason is that? You say you have a cat that likes sitting out in the rain. But you have 4 other cats, do they like to do the same? Cats like to toilet in private; they do not like being watched. That is why making giving them a litter tray with a cover is a good idea. Just because you have fostered cats doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about them. With age often comes wisdom. I agree a bit with snorky about cats being pets lite. A lot of people get a cat because they think they can leave them alone all day and shut them out at night if they don't have a cat flap. They shouldn't be allowed out at night as I have said before, they are more likely to get injured by a vehicle.

[pommie]

Cate

I am not forcing my cat to go outside to go to the toilet, they do that naturally and they actually enjoy going out in the garden. I will not allow my child to go out and play with the dirt/mud in my garden for a start and when i do have visitors who are children they are very well behaved and do not think its a goo didea to sit and put their hands in the dirt. Also I tell them not to and they are very clued up and know not to.

As i said before, my cats go out in the garden when they want to and to be honest they are out most of the time as I have a cat flap and they come and go as they like.

I didnt say that i stood over them whilst they went to the toilet but when I am outside in the garden then i do notice them doing it in my garden.

I didnt say that because I fostered cats that I knew everything about cats and i agree with you that with age often comes widsom and i dont agree that people should tell other people how to look after their animals.

For your information my cats cannot get to any vehicles so there is no risk of them getting run over.

Anyway this topic is about foxes so maybe it should be kept at that.

[pommie]

also are you telling me that if you put a litter tray in your house (that has access to a garden) that your cat will always come in and use the litter tray rather than go outside?

[DeptfordDiva]

I think that the majority of cat owners whose cats have access to a garden do NOT have a litter tray - why would they? I have 9 cats and they all go out, however i have one litter tray in the house and only 2 of my cats use it - the rest go outside.

[SimonM]

This whole business (sic) of litter trays and sacks of cat litter at the supermarket is a relatively modern phenomenon anyway, and doubtless a tribute to the marketing skills of the pet products companies...Originally they were introduced for people whose cats had no access outside, but it's clear the insidious propaganda has worked its spell over the past couple of decades...B)

[cate]

DeptfordDiva Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that the majority of cat owners whose cats

> have access to a garden do NOT have a litter tray

> - why would they? I have 9 cats and they all go

> out, however i have one litter tray in the house

> and only 2 of my cats use it - the rest go

> outside.

One litter tray between 9 cats is not enough! No wonder the others all go outside.

[cate]

pommie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> also are you telling me that if you put a litter

> tray in your house (that has access to a garden)

> that your cat will always come in and use the

> litter tray rather than go outside?

Yes, he does. He loves his litter tray. He likes being in the warm and doesn't like getting his feet cold or wet.

[cate]

pommie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cate

>

> I am not forcing my cat to go outside to go to the

> toilet, they do that naturally and they actually

> enjoy going out in the garden. I will not allow

> my child to go out and play with the dirt/mud in

> my garden for a start and when i do have visitors

> who are children they are very well behaved and do

> not think its a goo didea to sit and put their

> hands in the dirt. Also I tell them not to and

> they are very clued up and know not to.

>

> As i said before, my cats go out in the garden

> when they want to and to be honest they are out

> most of the time as I have a cat flap and they

> come and go as they like.

>

> I didnt say that i stood over them whilst they

> went to the toilet but when I am outside in the

> garden then i do notice them doing it in my

> garden.

>

> I didnt say that because I fostered cats that I

> knew everything about cats and i agree with you

> that with age often comes widsom and i dont agree

> that people should tell other people how to look

> after their animals.

>

> For your information my cats cannot get to any

> vehicles so there is no risk of them getting run

> over.

>

> Anyway this topic is about foxes so maybe it

> should be kept at that.

If you don't have litter trays then they have to go outside. If you have litter trays and they are dirty they mot cats will also go outside.

You say you don't let your child or any other children go in your garden and put their hands in the mud or dirt. What a shame! Digging and playing around in earth is a great pleasure for child as I am sure you would know. It sounds like your garden is strictly for the use of the cats. Shame you have to tell your child and visiting children not to use the garden because your cats use it as a toilet. Your cats go out in the garden to play obviously, and also because they have no choice about where to toilet. I didn't say that you stood over your cats while they went to the toilet. You said your cats used your garden 95% of the time. How would you know that?

You said that your cats can't get to any vehicles - how does that work? You said that you have other cats coming in your garden. Therefore that means that your cats can get out of your garden. Cats roam far and wide as I am sure you know. The only way your cats couldn't get near any vehicles would be if you had them in some sort of cage.

What was your reason for saying that you fostered cats then?

And to bring this subject back to foxes - they have come in through my cat flap, chewed things up and left deposits on my floor. They can be extremely bold animals.

[cate]

SimonM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This whole business (sic) of litter trays and

> sacks of cat litter at the supermarket is a

> relatively modern phenomenon anyway, and doubtless

> a tribute to the marketing skills of the pet

> products companies...Originally they were

> introduced for people whose cats had no access

> outside, but it's clear the insidious propaganda

> has worked its spell over the past couple of

> decades...B)

Yes, and down with hygiene too. Hope all your neighbouring cats use your garden as a toilet.

[Moos]

Cate, lighten up a little - why get so angry with other people's choices just because they aren't yours?

I have 2 cats and a small child. We have a (clean!) litter tray but the cats won't use it now that they are old enough to go outside, I don't really know why. Even when we had to start keeping them in at night because one of them kept getting himself beaten up, they obviously preferred to cross their legs until morning.

So yes I have to keep an eye on the small child when he plays outside, but so far so good and fingers crossed. I don't agree that cats are 'pets lite' - they form attachments to their people and need daily care and attention, as well as the basics of food, water and somewhere illegal to sleep.

[cate]

Moos, it's great that you have given your cats a choice of a litter tray. That is the main thing I wanted to stress. They might need to use it sometime. I found that as my cats got older they wanted to use the litter tray more. I didn't say that cats were pet lite, I said that I kind of agreed with snorky who said that. I don't think that the majority of people who get them feel that, except perhaps the ones who shut their animals out at night. Put the cat out with the milk bottles. A friend of mine used to let her cat roam at night and he lost his leg in a car accident one night. After that she kept him in and he used to kick up a fuss, but soon settled down. I wasn't getting angry with Pommie but it was upsetting that she kept saying odd things like she can't have a litter tray because of her child.

[kristymac1]

I have 2 cats - they are anything but 'Pet Lite'.

As with the vast majority of cat owners in ED (and god forbid beyond our borders) my two go out at night (well they could if they wanted to but why would they when there are numerous beds/sofas/laundry baskets to sleep on). Making the assumption that because your cats don't poo in your garden then nor will any other cat and therefore it's safe for children to play arm deep (and gloveless) in the soil is daft. I have a small toddler and she plays in the garden - under my supervision - when she is of an age to play without my supervision she will understand why she needs gloves while digging up the garden.

My female cat is also pretty good mates with some of the young foxes (!) who frequent Jennings.

[pommie]

cate

The reasons the kids cannot play in our garden is we have mostly turf in our garden with a small section of soil where plants are which is where my cats toilet.

Also the reason my cats do not go near vehicles etc is because we live in terraced houses with gardens backing on to ours and high walls either end of the houses (which is about 30 houses) which is why we have neighbours cats coming into our garden. Sometimes cats roam because they are not neutered etc.

Oh by the way I did use to have litter trays when my cats were younger but as with Moos, when my cats got bigger and started to go out, they did not want to use the litter tray.

At the end of the day it is a persons individual choice and it does not affect the cat whether they have a litter tray or choose to go outside to go to the toilet.

[cate]

Pommie,

Your posts are getting more and more surreal. You say kids can't play in your garden because you have turf? That would be grass. You don't let kids play on grass? Cats can climb high walls. They jump. Neutered cats roam as well. Mine always did. Originally you said you didn't have a litter tray because you have a small child. Now you are saying it is because the cats don't want use the litter trays. They should still have a choice.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Legalise the Moos One.

[snorky]

kristymac1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have 2 cats - they are anything but 'Pet Lite'.

>

> As with the vast majority of cat owners in ED (and

> god forbid beyond our borders) my two go out at

> night (well they could if they wanted to but why

> would they when there are numerous

> beds/sofas/laundry baskets to sleep on). Making

> the assumption that because your cats don't poo in

> your garden then nor will any other cat and

> therefore it's safe for children to play arm deep

> (and gloveless) in the soil is daft. I have a

> small toddler and she plays in the garden - under

> my supervision - when she is of an age to play

> without my supervision she will understand why she

> needs gloves while digging up the garden.

>

> My female cat is also pretty good mates with some

> of the young foxes (!) who frequent Jennings.

Kirsty - Give me your address & Ill pop down each night and do a big fat shit on your lawn or in the flower beds- and then You can have the task of explaining you your kids that this isnt a problem & you mustnt touch it without gloves, yet do nothing to stop me from performing my nightly shit

cat owners = pet lite

[Moos]

Snorky, you're so sweet when you get all huffy.

[snorky]

I do try...

The snorklets come back into the house from the garden and 20-30% of the time, they will trawl shit back, through no fault of their own - and yes, its cats shit - I know the difference

cats in the numbers we see in ED are surplus & indeed damaging to the ecosystem

Like the idea of a pet, but cant be arsed to take on the full 24/7 responsibility ? Get a cat - Kittys are EZ pets and you dont have to look after them too much - pet lite