Residential Parking Zones in streets off LL

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Jeremy

>

> busy day such as saturday when parking is a

> nightmare - walk to local shops (if poss)

> quiet day such as Sunday local shops closed but no

> strange cars parked out front of house

>

> either way no parking hassles

>

> The police station is arguably the onle building

> in britain that would be improved aesthetically by

> becoming a car park but if said car park held,

> say... 500 cars.. upon which roads would that many

> extra vehicles drive?

Still don't totally get your point SeanMacGabhann, but I think we're probably in agreement more or less.

The multi-storey suggestion was a joke really... although I'm sure many would find it useful... I very much doubt many of the residents would welcome it.

[Huguenot]

I heartily welcome the police station idea!

We should contact NCP and advise: a couple of levels underground, 2 or 3 levels above and a roof bar and terrace for the rest of us would do the job nicely!

Plenty of return for the prospective developer...

[louisiana]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I heartily welcome the police station idea!

haha

I misread that and saw 'I heartily welcome the police state idea'

:-S

[mixulee]

wow - astonished by the number of responses but heartening to see just how much of an issue it is for a lot of local dwellers. I would stress, this is not about a pro-car anti-car issue. For what it's worth I try as much to buy stuff from local shops (especially AJ Farmer) but lack of time and a limited budget means that I have to do a fortnightly shop at Sainsbury's. This is about redressing a balance - restoring a reasonable right of local residents to be able to park in their street as at the end of the day we're the ones paying the council taxes to maintain the upkeep of our neighborhood. Local traders like William Rose are making a fortune on Saturdays and a limited CPZ like this isn't going to hurt them in the slightest.

[mixulee]

Sorry - meant to say, based on the strength of feeling on this issue. What do we do next - take it up with the ward councillors or go to the council. Do we need to set up a petition ? Go door to door for physical signatures or is online viable ?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Good to hear you rejoing the fray Mixulee (interesting name btw)

Good luck to everyone with the petition but as PaulS pointed out, in a couple of years time, with the amount of residents in the area increasing exponentially, how will that square with EVERY resident's right to park in their street -

I think Mixulee makes some reasonable points - in all my lifetime up until recently any of us with a car could expect to park close to where we live - the reason we now can't is there is more of us driving. And no driver likes to give ground...so if CPZ is introduced it might benefit the existing residents but that's all....

[Ko]

pauls Wrote:

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> The parking around LL is getting ridiculous. This

> will be the third/fourth year I have lived in ED

> and when I first moved in I could always park

> outside my house. Then, I had to park on my street

> or around the corner. But in the last few months,

> I'm finding that I can't park anywhere near my

> house, if at all. And this isn't just during peak

> times...

I believe the problem has become worse over the last few years because:

(1) More flats are being given planning permission without the council insisting on parking capacity. I live where any gaps between houses are filled in with flats and people have sold off parts of big gardens to build on. E.g.:

- corner of Silvester and Barry Rd had what looks like two Victorian-style houses built but they are in fact split into flats

- opposite to this, part of a garden was built on and looks like next door is also going to have something built

- top of Whateley Rd had nice-looking flats built about 3 years ago but where do they all park?

- old corner shop opposite me was split into flats about 4 years ago

- a few houses down from me, 2 eco-houses are being built and they don't seem to have any parking provision because they are through a gate and there is not even room for off-street parking

- more flats are being built on corner of Crystal Palace and Underhill - don't think parking has been provided

ETC Etc - all the above are within 2 minutes walk of my house and so many examples demonstrate what a problem this is becoming. Every time a handful of more flats are being built (rather than a huge block), the council thinks parking isn't an issue but it quickly builds up into a problem. Developers should be forced to provide parking under the flats.

(2) Some people who are moving into ED seem to have more money - must to be able to afford the high prices here. Wealthier families are able to afford multiple cars even if they could in reality make do with 1 car.

(3) Planning permission seems to be readily given to split houses into flats - where will the multiple cars park?

(4) Yes, LL is attracting more people.

CPZ will only work if there aren't already too many residents' cars. The council needs to look into the problem first and the extent of each of the causes. It also needs to start considering parking when giving planning permission because the problem keeps getting worse.

[monica]

Jeremy darling,most shops are open on sundays on lordship lane.Including the local food shops you guys have mentioned on here.

[capt_birdseye]

I'm pretty sure that in the case of a lot of CPZs a single permit would be reasonably priced and additional ones would cost a hefty whack more. This would hopefully persuade a lot of people to do away with second/third cars. The owners of Gas-guzzling SUVs (like the pleasant guy mentioned in the first post) would be targeted with even more expensive permits.

[Bobby P]

Where on Melbourne Grove are people having so many difficulties parking? I live at the end of Ashbourne, and even despite the water companies digging up most of the road, I'm always able to park within 100 yards of the house and usually right outside my house. Not that I think that should be a right for residents. We live in an urban area. If you want that kind of parking, then you should try village life.

I do see some busy streets off Lordship, but I am very unconvinced that a CPZ would do anything other than cause the residents extra hassle (assuming the cost thereof is a "reasonable" ?80-90 per annum). As I've posted before on many threads on this topic, I've had the CPZ experience up in Camden borough, and it did NOTHING for the parking situation, merely added to the stress of living, with the car wrongly ticketed, bays suspended without notice, visiting elderly relatives unable to park as the visitors permits were so restricted.... etc. etc.

If it had actually helped parking, I would be in favour. I see a very similar area here in Dulwich, and reckon exactly the same would happen if a CPZ were introduced. I'm interested to know how many of the advocates on this forum have actually lived under a CPZ regime elsewhere (and maybe have better experiences). I personally find the lack of restrictions here a selling point, which many people living under CPZ's tell me they envy.

And BTW, not a crazy car user here, but more often pedestrian or cyclist, for the record. Just sticking up for the counter argument as there seems a rather large consensus in favour. I wonder if they would be so keen on it, once they've had the fun of living with the extra stress it tends to bring to daily life. Grass is always greener (yes, perhaps more grass would be a good thing).

[capt_birdseye]

Not Melbourne, Blackwater St. The favourite stopping off point for people going to the butcher's of a saturday.

I've had experience of CPZ in 2 other areas, in both cases it made life a lot easier. The only CPZ problems I've had have been in areas where I'm not a resident. So serves me right really!

[Bobby P]

I guess it IS hazardous living next to the most popular shop on LL... And yes, the queuers should all walk rather than clogging up your quiet little street.

[capt_birdseye]

There was never a problem when it was a lingerie shop. I wonder why?

[dulwichmum]

I was the only customer?

DM

[Ko]

Bobby P Wrote:

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As I've posted before on many

> threads on this topic, I've had the CPZ experience

> up in Camden borough, and it did NOTHING for the

> parking situation, merely added to the stress of

> living, with the car wrongly ticketed, bays

> suspended without notice, visiting elderly

> relatives unable to park as the visitors permits

> were so restricted.... etc. etc.

>

> If it had actually helped parking, I would be in

> favour.

Told my other half about this thread and his reaction was 'Oh god we don't want that stress'. He lived in a CPZ for 2 years and it was a nightmare. Parking wasn't any easier. Yes, bays were suspended (sometimes when he wasn't parked on his road but one road away) and his car got towed away twice with a very hefty release fee and inconvenience of having to go to some not-very-near place and collect it. We still used to have to circle around the block a couple of times to find a space.

I agree though that some CPZ can work though as Capt Birdseye has had experience of this. I believe its really an argument that can't have a right answer because there are so many pros and cons on both sides!!!!!!! If someone can afford the running costs of a second/third car and really thinks it is a necessity rather than, as is often the case, a luxury, then a second permit at even ?500 may not put them off.

I also agree with Bobby P that the lack of restrictions is one less stress to deal with and London already has enough stresses. Living off LL or, in particular, on the road next to a station is always risky. There is the convenience but also the risk. However I know someone who often drives to ED station even though he could easily get a bus down LL!

[Bobby P]

Ko Wrote:

> Told my other half about this thread and his

> reaction was 'Oh god we don't want that stress'.

> He lived in a CPZ for 2 years and it was a

> nightmare. Parking wasn't any easier. Yes, bays

> were suspended (sometimes when he wasn't parked on

> his road but one road away) and his car got towed

> away twice with a very hefty release fee and

> inconvenience of having to go to some

> not-very-near place and collect it. We still used

> to have to circle around the block a couple of

> times to find a space.

That happened to me a couple of times up in Camden Borough, after they introduced their useless CPZ. However, I managed to get the money back after endless back and forth letter writing to the Council's lovely privatised parking enforcers. BUT of course, only after I first had to pay ?180 to get the car released (they charged more as a "holding fee" because I didn't notice for 2 days that it was gone, as I'd had to park three roads away - shows how well the CPZ - wasn't - working). And who in hell wants to spend their life stressing out writing letters to the idiots in the Council, even if it eventually gets me you a refund? Life is too short.

> I agree though that some CPZ can work though as

> Capt Birdseye has had experience of this. I

> believe its really an argument that can't have a

> right answer because there are so many pros and

> cons on both sides!!!!!!! If someone can afford

> the running costs of a second/third car and really

> thinks it is a necessity rather than, as is often

> the case, a luxury, then a second permit at even

> ?500 may not put them off.

>

Quite!

> I also agree with Bobby P that the lack of

> restrictions is one less stress to deal with and

> London already has enough stresses. Living off LL

> or, in particular, on the road next to a station

> is always risky. There is the convenience but

> also the risk. However I know someone who often

> drives to ED station even though he could easily

> get a bus down LL!

Indeed. It is definitely something most people would consider when buying their property. I simply don't get this idea that living close to the centre of London gives you an automatic right to a parking space outside your front door. It doesn't compute. And it still won't compute, I betcha, if we have a CPZ generously bestowed upon us. I bet the Council are rubbing their hands in glee at the mere thought of all those resident fines. Turkeys voting for Christmas....! (IMHO of course).

[Huguenot]

I think it's fair to say that CPZs don't work if the number of cars owned by the local residents exceeds the number of spaces available. The problem can't be solved by a CPZ. This may have been th impact in Camden.

CPZs are specifically to discourage people using your residential street (your home) as a commuter car park, a supermarket car park or vehicle storage (all of these are industrial not residential uses). More committed visitors will either use public transport or carparks at places like sainsbury.

This isn't bad for local business as committed visitors spend more time & cash than lazy newspaper trippers.

As for the 'no right to park outside your own home', well yes you're right in principle. However, if the new occupier is the irresponsible commuter who drives 800 yards to the station rather than walk or catch the bus, and I'm forced to park outside his house as a result (and catch the bus home) then that's just offensive. I'd perfer to resolve it with legislation rather than a brawl in the street!

Please don't give us any 'dog eat dog' rubbish.

Meanwhile as an armchair 'citizen concerned for the future' I admit I have no sympathy for 2 car families in a city like London. That's about vanity and self indulgence, not necessity.

[pauls]

Since yesterday, I see the issue of CPZ has become a little out of fovour. I'm not sure if this is the right way to be thinking. I don't mind that I have to park around the corner and walk to my house, I have had to do that alot over the last 4 years I have lived in ED (Magadala end). But something has changed over the last couple of months. I've barely seen a spare place anywhere in the area.

People are taliking alot about Camden, however I think it could be and awkward example. The demands of placed on Camden far exceed those of LL. LL is a great place, but isn't one of the most famous places in Britain. I used to live in Archway (which in someways is simular to the LL set-up) and saw a more successful transision. Over night, the cars that onced jammed the streets miraculously found somewhere else to park. It wasn't empty, but the situation was much much better.

I'm still with Mixulee, we need to do something.

[Alan Dale]

Removed

[*Bob*]

Alan Dale Wrote:

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If you want to talk parking he is THE man.

I know I've just been (rightfully) chided on another thread for mockery, but I couldn't help but laugh out loud at this.

(Sorry everyone)

[pauls]

Alan Dale,

thanks for the link, he does seem THE man.

I'll have a look into what he's saying.

[Alan Dale]

removed

[Bobby P]

Actually, it was Camden Borough, nearer Belsize Park in fact, rather than the middle of Camden Town, where I was living when the CPZ was introduced a few years ago. At the time, not a dissimilar demographic to the current East Dulwich.

As for Archway, just anecdotally, I've friends up there living in the residential streets with CPZ, and they find it impossible to find a space on their streets, despite the parking restrictions. I think at best a CPZ is a VERY short term solution, but the real issue is multiple car-owning households, who will park on the street whether or not the CPZ is there.

As for visitors to local shops, if they are local to ED, they will HAVE a residents badge anyhow, so can still clog up the streets. But in any case, what happens always is that some bays on each residential street will be marked out for "pay and display" parking anyhow, which actually REDUCES the amount of road space currently available for residents, as they can't use those bays (only the resident bays).

I wish I could say to the CPZ enthusiasts "try it and see" but the problem is there's no going back for everyone once it is imposed. I do believe a straw poll taken a year or two after its introduction would see the kind of complaints, dissatisfaction and the feeling of having been conned that some of us have experienced in CPZ's elsewhere.

[jim_the_chin]

Alan,

don't mention the UR

We are SUBUR

[Jeremy]

> However I know someone who often

> drives to ED station even though he could easily

> get a bus down LL!

I sometimes do this (maybe a 2 or 3 times a month) if I'm in danger of missing a train. But I wouldn't have to if the trains were more frequent...