Residential Parking Zones in streets off LL

[poppy]

Argh, so it's you who parks outside my house!! I have to agree with mixulee on this one - I am also fed up with driving around the block a couple of times only to have to park a few streets away and would happily(ish) pay for a permit. It took me ages to work out why this bizarrely seemed even worse during the week than on a saturday...until I realised that people are parking in my street to go to the station as well as to shop (I live a few blocks away, so this was not as obvious to me at first as it now sounds!) I don't think trains into town every ten minutes can be considered infrequent, and perhaps if we did have a CPZ it would deter people from driving simply because they are running a few minutes late! And before this triggers another "just sell your car then" rant, I work in the NHS and need my car to visit my patients. Of course there are downsides to having a CPZ, and of course with so many flats, demand might outstrip supply, but knowing that you're being asked to pay a fairly hefty sum for a permit might cause people to reconsider whether they need their car - I once lived in an area where I would have to have paid over ?100 and decided to sell my car because on balance, it just wasn't worth it for the convenience of being able to drive to Sainsbury's now and again.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Poppy - a fine example of a watertight case if ever I saw it. Although as someone who clearly needs a car I now object to you having to pay for a permit...

contradictory - thats me

[citizenED]

Having cake AND eating it. Lets face it, if you live near to a High street with all the nice shops but also with the Post Office, Dry Cleaners and hardware stores you might expect the parking to be a bit tight at times. You get the advantage of convenience but then you can walk to the shops whereas other people might have to drive ie elderly, infirm, mums with kids etc. And no one's mentioned all the flats above the shops on Lordship. The people who live in them cannot park outside their gaffs so are likely to park in the surrounding streets.

Please lets not have a CPZ in ED. Part of the charm of this place is that we don't have one.

(though feel very sorry for residents of St. Francis Road if any so-and-so parks there for the station)

Citizen

[Bobby P]

Indeed, citizenED.

Being so close to such a sought after high street, one of the prices one might expect to pay is lack of parking spaces at certain times. I really don't see how a CPZ will change this, given it actually reduces the amount of parking bays/space on each street available to the residents. It can only deter casual "out of area" shoppers at best, and I'm really not so sure they are the ones causing the squeeze on a daily basis (except maybe around market time and on Saturdays, but then again, that's the trade off for living near a very popular market...). Who are these mythical beasts? Come on, own up!!! Isn't it just more affluent residents owning more cars than previous generations of ED-ers? ...who will still be parking up in the same places if a CPZ were introduced...

[Huguenot]

No Bobby P, it's not the case - although it would support an anti-cpz campaign if it were (and I'd support it too).

I live on Crawthew Grove, and 80% of the cars parked in the immediate vicinity are not resident's cars - and a lot of the houses are converted to flats.

Even in the evening between 7pm and 8pm there's a roar of vehicles as the daily commuters are replaced by the idle boogers who drive down the pub and then leave the car there for three days before picking it up ;-)

If as you say it's not out of areas shoppers during the day then it's simply people driving twenty yards to the shops.

Regulars will know that I don't own a car, so I'm not pro CPZ for my own benefit - I'm pro anything that makes people aware of how selfish behaviour impacts in the medium and long term on both our environment (immediate vicinity) and environment (kid's inheritance).

BTW did you know that the bloke who runs the dry cleaners at the norht end of LL runs an ?80k car? ;-)

[Jeremy]

poppy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think trains into

> town every ten minutes can be considered

> infrequent, and perhaps if we did have a CPZ it

> would deter people from driving simply because

> they are running a few minutes late!

As stated before, this is simply not the case at peak times - i.e. morning rush hour, where they are more like every 20 minutes. Another option is to drive to Canada Water and park at the cinema, which I also sometimes do. It can often be just too tempting to jump into your car, if you know it's going to save you valuable time.

Although to be fair, if my road was always parked up, I'd probably be in favour of a CPZ too.

[mixulee]

At a guess I'd say there were 3 reasons for the increase in parked cars:

1. Mon-Sat There's probably 50% more active businesses on Lordship Lane than there were 3 years ago. Take someone like William Rose which employs 10 people during the week and 15 on a Saturday. Most of their employees have cars and obviously park them as near to their workplace as possible.

2. Increasing affluence of ED residents means more car owning households.

3. Increased popularity of LL means more cars especially on a Saturday from the affluent households living in surrounding suburbs (ie Herne Hill, Dulwich Village, Camberwell, Brixton).

Now there's nothing we can do about the demographic shift and at the end of the day the increased number of car owning households is in line with the huge rise in ED homeowner's house values.

But what a CPZ could do is dissuade those who could easily take a relatively short trip by public transport to either get to work or shop in LL but currently don't have the incentive to do so.

I've never claimed that it's a fundamental right of mine to have a parking space outside my house, but is it so contentious to suggest that as one of numerous households with young children that we shouldn't have to spend 10 minutes pointlessly wasting petrol driving round and round the block just to get a space three streets away ?

[Jamma]

Unfortunately this is a car vs non-car debate. A large number of people in East Dulwich make unnecessary journeys, especially to Sainsbury and to school. My street gets jammed every morning with parents dropping off kids at the primary school. I simply don't believe that any of them live so far away that they need to drive to school.

However the CPZ issue becomes one of cost too. Not everyone can afford to fork out ?70 or more for something they previously haven't had to pay for and for something that doesn't even guarantee them a space.

[louisiana]

Jamma Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Unfortunately this is a car vs non-car debate. A

> large number of people in East Dulwich make

> unnecessary journeys, especially to Sainsbury and

> to school. My street gets jammed every morning

> with parents dropping off kids at the primary

> school. I simply don't believe that any of them

> live so far away that they need to drive to

> school.

Particularly when they've probably bought their house just to be within the school catchment area. :-S

[Bobby P]

I'm all for people not making unnecessary journeys. School runs and local shop trips in particular. Both better on foot. People should use their cars less. (Perhaps even dry cleaners with ?80k vehicles, Huguenot.)

But resorting to the blunt instrument of a CPZ can cause more problems than it solves, IMHO. Jamma points out that the charge (more like ?80-90 per car per annum) penalises poorer households - but the ?80-90 is often the thin end of the wedge. Visitors' permits at ?5+ per car per day, and the inevitable fines imposed on residents who thought they were legally parked in suddenly "suspended" bays: these are the really irksome annoyances which I've experienced living in other CPZ zones. They were unpleasant in the extreme, so I would be most eager to avoid the same unnecessary stress here in ED, which I think has one of the last remaining sane parking regimes in inner London (i.e. some restrictions where necessary, but not on literally every street).

[karter]

I agree with bobby!

[Kathryn]

For goodness sake. Dont be crazy and ask for CPZ. Look at your street and just start to add up how many cars might be there ligitimly. Take into account some families have two cars, some houses are flats so may have more than one car to the building. There will always be the odd non resident car but BUT BUT. CPZ does not garentee you a space, it does not mean you will be able to park any nearer to your house, what it does mean is that you will have to pay for the privalage of not beeing able to park outside your house. Any vistors, parents, friend, handymen or other people for any reason coming to your house will not be able to park on your street even let alone near your house depending on how far the zone goes unless you pay even more money to get a vistor permit. Even then it does not garentee them/you a space. Please please do not ask for something that will change nothing and cost you extra money give you no benift. Oh it makes me upset to think about it. Have lived in CPZ before I promise it is no good thing.

[macroban]

I hear that Southwark Council will introduce a Lordship Lane controlled parking zone in 2008.

Is this a rumour or a firm plan?

[Doodles]

I remember reading elsewhere on the forum that there may be plans to stop allocating schools according to catchment area and use a ballot instead. Wonder if anyone has considered the car use / parking implications of this.

Have never met someone who lives in a CPZ who is happy with it. Disaster prone in terms of rules not being properly applied and displacing the problem to elsewhere.