How many nurses live in Dulwich?

[????]

Zepyhr - you can do a degree in nursing, I know, that's not the entry requirement though..there's a big diffference

[buggie]

Was told by a nurse lecturer today that within the next few years nursing will become degree entry (to get much beyond a junior band 6 post these days you need to at least have started to work towards a degree)

While nurses aren't poorly paid, given the amount of responsibility (both towards pt's and in a managerial capacity) the rates of pay do not compare well with similarly responsible job in the private sector - doesn't help make nursing very appealing, think social work has similar problems.

Can imagine recruitment worsening once the diploma is phased out as there are lots of good nurses who wouldn't be able to/feel confident to do a degree straight off (I certainly wasn't).

I do agree with your points Keef but in nursing you're far more likely to have to deal with people in acute crisis/stress which does put a bit of a different twist on things.

???? - sadly I'd left the drinks early on Fri after 1 shandy (was home before 10pm!) but in my defence, was working the whole w/e - guessing you never caught on to checking the off-duty of the nurses you knew; catch us with the next day off and we're all wild!!

[????]

buggie - I know....i guess irony don't work on the internet as you and Jah were thinking my comments were serious..I went out with nurse for 4 years, I know what you're like....;-)

[zephyr]

???? Wrote:

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> Zepyhr - you can do a degree in nursing, I know,

> that's not the entry requirement though..there's a

> big diffference

I know it isn't. The entry requirement is 5 GCSEs including maths, english and a science for the diploma and a bit more for the degree. The grades you get will determine which uni you go to in many cases. There are many who drop out, just like any other course.

My wife is in the public sector also. About 4 years ago she started a degree which included training in the profession she was joining (probation) On qualifying she started on similar salary to a newly qualified nurse (but with more holiday).

I have been in the NHS for over 20 years now and she still gets more holiday (though I have abetter salary I guess).

I am fortunate that I am in a senior post but when I look at newly qualified midwives and nurses now I really do feel for them - it is a lot harder now than it was a few years ago.

[Keef]

Jimbob Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Keef Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > tho' the stresses of the job can be appalling -

> > not the patients but the burdensome bureaucracy

> > that gets in the way of treating the patients.

> >

> > Replace "patients" with "pupils" or "service

> > users", and you've just described pretty much

> any

> > public service job.

>

>

> only pupils and service users don,t normally have a tendency to experience life saving procedures or on occasion die on you.

No, but that wasn't my point at all. I was talking about the bureaucratic side of things.

That said, plenty of service users die on people!

[buggie]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> buggie - I know....i guess irony don't work on the

> internet as you and Jah were thinking my comments

> were serious..I went out with nurse for 4 years,

> I know what you're like....;-)

Oh cripes you weren't that bit seriously too were you?? While on the whole I was, that bit should have ended with a smiley!! :-$

[Cassius]

One thing about nurses though - not likely to suffer from job losses in the credit crunch - we'll always need nurses! (who incidentally do a brilliant job and one I know that I would be unable and unwilling to do)

[Jah Lush]

Quids - irony doesn't seem to come over too well on the page and that's why me and buggie didn't get it. It just looked like what it was. The only person who seems to do it well on this forum is *Bob*.

Anyway, nurses are great and do a very tough and demanding job. If you're ever seriously ill in hospital you'll soon find out how hard they work and the long hours that they do. I still don't think they get paid enough.

[zephyr]

Cassius Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> One thing about nurses though - not likely to

> suffer from job losses in the credit crunch -

> we'll always need nurses! (who incidentally do a

> brilliant job and one I know that I would be

> unable and unwilling to do)

You are right - unfortunately as nurses and midwives are 'protected' hospitals cut other areas to make ends meet. This is usually support staff and clerical staff thus increasing the pressure on clinical staff.

[AllforNun]

well i know 3 or was it 4 ? all share a flat in ED , polite boys all of them.

[indiepanda]

zephyr Wrote:

> You are right - unfortunately as nurses and

> midwives are 'protected' hospitals cut other areas

> to make ends meet. This is usually support staff

> and clerical staff thus increasing the pressure on

> clinical staff.

Seems to me in recent years it's been cleaning they've cut back on - putting it out to the cheapest contractor instead of using their own staff. What a great idea that turned out to be! Hopefully they've learned from that mistake now.

I appreciate nurses do a really tough job for not fantastic money - my brother in law is a mental health nurse and he teaches safe restraint techniques that he has learned to other nurses after getting attacked by various patients and I honestly don't know how he manages to do his job and stay so cool. I'm sure I'd last 5 minutes, if that. I can talk to difficult people, but feeling like my physical safety might be at threat... no thanks!

However, I do think most jobs are getting more stressful and pressured these days - not just nursing. If it's not the health system creaking under the pressure of a growing aging population or the education system being pushed to get higher exam passes, it's shareholders wanting the companies they own to deliver ever increasing levels of profit leading to endless "restructuring" and cut backs in staffing so no one feels their job is safe.

If anyone can tell me they have got a well paid job that involves regular hours (i.e. minimal unpaid overtime) and no stress I would love to know what it is, I can't think of one.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

indiepanda Wrote:

job free of stress I would love to know what it is, I can't think of one.

If only you had been 25 years ago!

They were 10-a-plenty in London until Maggie The Thatch made herself busy:X

The Docks!

The Print(I worked next to Fleet Street where every paper was based then and saw 6/7 people regularly do the job of 2.

Add to the fun many Guys signed in as "D.Duck and M.Mouse" etc at 12.00 Midnight,went off to do their Cabbing/Moonlighting jobs and signed back in again at 6.00AM!

We used to finish at 5.00PM and play the Printers at Darts in one of the many Pubs there.They said it was their "lunch break" 4 hours later they were still there..."Holiday Camp":))

Greater London Council(GLC)under Little Kenny Livingstone(What A Star!) knew many employees and they did as little as possible....Maggie sussed all of these and more:X

[SimonM]

Yeah....she put all them miners out of work....idle bastards the lot of them...(6)

As for well-paid, minimum overtime, stress-free jobs, in an adjoing thread a gentleman is reported as having just turned down a job paying ?500,000 a week....

[cypriot turk]

You do require a BSc degree to become a nurse now, as i did my BSc in nursing not that long ago, and believe me it is not easy to study for the BSc whist doing hospital placements, exams and essays at the same time.

As for the pay, i am a senior staff nurse with 5 years experience and i earn ?22500 a year, we wish to earn ?24000.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SimonM Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah....she put all them miners out of

> work....idle bastards the lot of them...(6)

Having been round the block a tad,I also had 16 years working for The National Coal Board.

Most Miners will tell you that the little scamp Arthur Scargill prooved to be the architect of The Miners downfall--then Maggie did her bit to ruin their Communities thereafter.

[SimonM]

I grew up in a succession of houses owned by the NCB. As long as your "Most Miners" are Nottinghamshire ones you are probably right. The fact is everything Scargill claimed the Thatcher government was secretly planning with the coal mines turned out to be absolutely accurate.

[dulwichmum]

Nursing and midwifery are incredibly demanding careers. Nursing staff in the community and hospital are often victims of assault and are required to be endlessly patient and kind to the vulnerable patients they care for. You cannot possibly have any appreciation for how skilled these roles are unless you take a trip around a clinical area such as an ITU, special care baby unit or labour ward. Midwives (for example) can suddenly find themselves facing catastrophic situations such as a shoulder dystocia or a cord prolapse - you would gain an appreciation for their qualifications, training, quick thinking and calm under pressure then.

I am still puzzled by ???'s comment about how he went out with a nurse so he knows... what does he know? Has he been out with every nurse? I really don't think so.

About ten years ago a midwife on Kings labour ward wearing a pedometer walked for nine miles in one shift without leaving the labour ward during a shift.... That can be an incredibly stressful job.

I don't think that midwives and nurses wages compare that favourably with teachers or the police, when you consider the danger they are in with regard to the hazards such as blood borne infections (and litigation) they expose themselves too. Yes it is still possible to qualify with a diploma, but newly qualified nurses with diplomas must immediately begin studying to take a degree in their own time if they want to climb the career ladder and yes, nursing posts have been slashed over the last few years. Scores of health visitors and district nurses posts have disappeared from Lambeth Southwark and Lewisham PCTs over the last five years. They have been replaced by health care assistants with NVQs.

Nurses are required to read journals and attend regular study days in order to keep their qualifications and stay up to date, and yet they are undermined, undervalued and often patronised by people with the perception that the profession is populated by "girls who are just not that bright".

[SimonM]

*thunderous applause to the previous post*

[Tony.London Suburbs]

SimonM Wrote:

- The fact is everything Scargill claimed the Thatcher government was secretly planning with the coal mines turned out to be absolutely accurate.

Scargill also "claimed" that Uncle Joe Stalin was given a bad press and would defend him(!)

After the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, evidence from the Soviet archives became available. The archives record that about 800,000 prisoners were executed under Stalin for either political or criminal offences, while around 1.7 million died in the GULAG and some 390,000 perished during kulak forced resettlement ? a total of about 3 million victims.

So forgive me if I don't take too much notice of whay lovable old Arfur claimed::o

[Mick Mac]

Poor old "Arfur" was the last of the old brigade. Fighting for union rights - not understanding that the country had to turn. Thatcher did a job that noone wanted and that noone would thank her for, but in hindsight it was a correction that had to take place. Nothing to do with nurses but we all work harder now and GB is more prosperous as a result (present climate excluded)

[annaj]

Well said Dulwichmum.

When I fist started going out with MrJ he was a nusrse (so Quids, I have experience of romancing a nurse too and I can tell you mine fits very few sterotypes(although I did also assume you to be joking in your early posts and wasn't offended!))and I was amazed by the bizarre attitudes we encountered.

I was told, among other things, that I was obviously just roughing it til I married a nice doctor, that I should be with someone "more middle class" than a nurse, that we were "the wrong way round" and that I was obviously just trying to shock my parents.

People certainly have some very strange perceptions of nurses.

As to the orginal question. Hundreds.

[Ms T]

dulwichmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nursing and midwifery are incredibly demanding

> careers. Nursing staff in the community and

> hospital are often victims of assault and are

> required to be endlessly patient and kind to the

> vulnerable patients they care for. You cannot

> possibly have any appreciation for how skilled

> these roles are unless you take a trip around a

> clinical area such as an ITU, special care baby

> unit or labour ward. Midwives (for example) can

> suddenly find themselves facing catastrophic

> situations such as a shoulder dystocia or a cord

> prolapse - you would gain an appreciation for

> their qualifications, training, quick thinking and

> calm under pressure then.

>

> I am still puzzled by ???'s comment about how he

> went out with a nurse so he knows... what does he

> know? Has he been out with every nurse? I really

> don't think so.

>

> About ten years ago a midwife on Kings labour ward

> wearing a pedometer walked for nine miles in one

> shift without leaving the labour ward during a

> shift.... That can be an incredibly stressful

> job.

>

> I don't think that midwives and nurses wages

> compare that favourably with teachers or the

> police, when you consider the danger they are in

> with regard to the hazards such as blood borne

> infections (and litigation) they expose themselves

> too. Yes it is still possible to qualify with a

> diploma, but newly qualified nurses with diplomas

> must immediately begin studying to take a degree

> in their own time if they want to climb the career

> ladder and yes, nursing posts have been slashed

> over the last few years. Scores of health

> visitors and district nurses posts have

> disappeared from Lambeth Southwark and Lewisham

> PCTs over the last five years. They have been

> replaced by health care assistants with NVQs.

>

> Nurses are required to read journals and attend

> regular study days in order to keep their

> qualifications and stay up to date, and yet they

> are undermined, undervalued and often patronised

> by people with the perception that the profession

> is populated by "girls who are just not that

> bright"

Bravo!>:D<

[Keef]

I don't think that midwives and nurses wages compare that favourably with teachers or the police

The police are well paid in my opinion, and get very good pension schemes.

Don't agree so much about teachers and some social care professionals though. I'm not saying nurses don't deserve anymore money, but I don't like this whole "our job is harder than their job" nonsense. Basically they are not comparable. Lots of public sector jobs deserve to be higher paid.

Shame nurses don't have unions as arsey as doctors, then they'd be sorted.

health care assistants with NVQs.

What NVQs do they have? A lot of people scoff at NVQs, but actually the higher levels (4 & 5) are actually quite high qualifications.

[SimonM]

>So forgive me if I don't take too much notice of whay lovable old Arfur claimed<

His ludicrous politics in no way invalidate what I said about the truth of his accurate assertions regarding the Thatcher Government's plans for the Coal Industry. They denied having a hit-list for pit closures whereas they did indeed have such a list. The new pay/productivity scheme the Bosses were trying to put across was indeed divisive, as was intended, as it benefitted the miners in the "easy" coalfields of Nottinghamshire. Ut was classic divide and rule Thatcher was motivated more by revenge on the NUM for the way the Heath Government had been outmanoeuvred in the previous strike, more than any noble purpose of refloating the Good Ship Britain. Scargill was tactically naive and got up a lot of people's backs, but rightly or wrongly he was supported enthuastically by the bulk of his members. The damage done to these communities by treating them like rebel outposts to be out down by overpaid, vicious bussed-in members of the Met Cavalry has never been repaired.

[Mick Mac]

Simon M

I'm a labour voter but I'm glad Scargill lost that battle. Thatcher killed the coal industry, but I think the coal industry was just the front window for the defeat of the unions - the unions crippled britain and made it uncompetitive. thatcher was dishonest as you point out but she knew she had to win this one.

People need however to be mobile - the mines when they were needed as part of the fabric of british life attracted huge amounts of people and when the mines closed down, albeit abruptly, people needed to be able to move, to follow the next opportunity and therefore the populations of these mining areas have reduced, as did the shipbuilders before them.

BTW one of my favourite films is Brassed Off which helps show the troubles the coal industry underwent during this change. here's Tara Fitzgerald and Ewan McGregor

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C8uoY9e5YVY&feature=related