Could we ban single use carrier bags in ED?

[pinecone]

i have spotted a fine wood burner in shoreditch which I am about to cop for my ED mcmansion

[northlondoner]

TheCat Wrote:

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> dinner party 'greenies' are the worst kind.

>

> You think you're 'doing your bit to save the

> planet' by banning plastic bags from

> SE22...bahahahaha....

>

> spend a day in any tier 1-3 city in China when you

> cant see 10 yards in front of you because of the

> smog; then tell me that by washing out your

> marmite jars for the recycling you're making a

> difference....

Nailed it!

[StraferJack]

China will accelerate towards recycling faster than we ever did

This truly is one of those "part of the solution/part of the problem" deals

Plastic bags and jam jars = negligible? Absolutely. But it's a start and in years to come the importance will be obvious

[TheCat]

Ok....so for the bleeding hearts...

HDPE (high-density polyethylene, the typical lightweight plastic bags) are superior to paper because they require less energy and far less water to make and take up less space in landfill. Comparing them to reusable non woven polypropylene (PP) bags?the typical reusable bag, made in China, and sold by grocers?the study found that their impacts depend upon the number of times that plastic bags are reused. Data on this is scarce and controversial?critics of plastic say the bags are typically used just once, but the industry says they are frequently used, often as garbage bags, or to carry kids? lunches to school, or pick up dog poop. (Banning plastic carryout bags means that people may have to buy bags for those purposes.) Focusing on the climate issue, the 120-page-long UK study says:

The paper, LDPE, non-woven PP and cotton bags should be reused at least 3, 4, 11 and 131 times respectively to ensure that they have lower global warming potential than conventional HDPE carrier bags that are not reused.

If I understand that correctly, it means that one reusable bag has the carbon footprint of 13 disposable bags that are used just once. If you use the disposable bag twice, you?ll need to deploy the reusable bag 26 times before you are ahead in terms of global warming. By the way, this doesn?t include the impact of washing the reusable bag in hot water,

Now what?

[TheCat]

TheCat Wrote:

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> Ok....so for the bleeding hearts...

>

> HDPE (high-density polyethylene, the typical

> lightweight plastic bags) are superior to paper

> because they require less energy and far less

> water to make and take up less space in landfill.

> Comparing them to reusable non woven polypropylene

> (PP) bags?the typical reusable bag, made in China,

> and sold by grocers?the study found that their

> impacts depend upon the number of times that

> plastic bags are reused. Data on this is scarce

> and controversial?critics of plastic say the bags

> are typically used just once, but the industry

> says they are frequently used, often as garbage

> bags, or to carry kids? lunches to school, or pick

> up dog poop. (Banning plastic carryout bags means

> that people may have to buy bags for those

> purposes.) Focusing on the climate issue, the

> 120-page-long UK study says:

> The paper, LDPE, non-woven PP and cotton bags

> should be reused at least 3, 4, 11 and 131 times

> respectively to ensure that they have lower global

> warming potential than conventional HDPE carrier

> bags that are not reused.

> If I understand that correctly, it means that one

> reusable bag has the carbon footprint of 13

> disposable bags that are used just once. If you

> use the disposable bag twice, you?ll need to

> deploy the reusable bag 26 times before you are

> ahead in terms of global warming. By the way, this

> doesn?t include the impact of washing the reusable

> bag in hot water,

>

> Now what?

The silence is deafening......

[maxxi]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> maxxi Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> ----

> >

> > I know - sky-high Co-op prices and that

> 'Iceland'

> > - a yuppie paradise!

>

>

> Have you seen the chilled/frozen vegetarian

> section in Iceland/Co-op Maxxi?

>

> I thought not.

I apologise - I didn't realise you required all your vegetarian food to be made up into ready meals for you by major supermarket chains. I had stupidly assumed that you might have the ability to buy very cheap and nutritious frozen veg (for example peas, beans, spinach) such as Iceland has in abundance or fresh veg and fruit (as can often be seen hiding in the Co-op in the large area before one reaches the ready meals section) and actually 'cook' (you can Google this term) your own veggie delights.

Life sure is tough for you veggies.

Where exactly DO you find your meat-free meals at such a Lordship-Lane-free price one is tempted to enquire?

[tfwsoll]

>>Read my post properly! I said I sometimes go shopping straight from work. It's spontaneous depending on when I finish so unlikely to take a bag with me. So if the supermarket doesn't provide bags & I don't have a car, without bags it'll be difficult getting the shopping home on a bus. I can only fit so much inside my underwear/on my head! That's the logic.

I see what you mean but there are fold up bags on the market that you can slip into your work bag (maybe not your underwear or your head!) so you can do some shopping after work.

[Jeremy]

TheCat Wrote:

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> the study found that their impacts depend upon the number of times that

> plastic bags are reused.

You don't say. Was this "study" conducted by primary school children?

[Penguin68]

Was this "study" conducted by primary school children?

I doubt it. Attached are links to two studies by grow-ups which tell the same story. If you are interested in facts.

http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/PDF/SCHO0711BUAN-E-E.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291023/scho0711buan-e-e.pdf

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/57346/0016899.pdf

[KalamityKel]

From the first link -

"Whatever type of bag is used, the key to reducing the impacts is to reuse it as

many times as possible and where reuse for shopping is not practicable, other

reuse, e.g. to replace bin liners, is beneficial. "

Really? A study was needed to be done to make this assessment?

[Penguin68]

I think this comment was an introduction to the first table which does then analyse impact based both on non-re-use and re-use. It's of course a truism, but those do tend to stand-out in executive summaries. You have to advocate re-use to then base analysis on that. And if re-use is important, education/ advocacy for its adoption may then be needed.

[catai32]

More info:

http://adf.ly/r394I

[alice]

Did SNUB make any difference?

How much did it cost?

[aquarius moon]

maxxi Wrote:

> I apologise - I didn't realise you required all

> your vegetarian food to be made up into ready

> meals for you by major supermarket chains. I had

> stupidly assumed that you might have the ability

> to buy very cheap and nutritious frozen veg (for

> example peas, beans, spinach) such as Iceland has

> in abundance or fresh veg and fruit (as can often

> be seen hiding in the Co-op in the large area

> before one reaches the ready meals section) and

> actually 'cook' (you can Google this term) your

> own veggie delights.

>

> Life sure is tough for you veggies.

>

> Where exactly DO you find your meat-free meals at

> such a Lordship-Lane-free price one is tempted to

> enquire?

Very funny Maxxi :)

I may be vegetarian but don't eat a lot of veg. Tend to use meat alternatives/tofu instead when I do cook.

And there is nothing wrong with ready meals now & again if time is limited

Sainsbury's after 6.00pm is quite good because they reduce everything that is passing it's 'sell-by' date & most of it is freezable.

Other than that it's the buy one get one free or half price offers from Sains or Tesco.

When I said I can't afford to shop in Lordship Lane, I was actually referring to the independents eg chemists, deli's, off-licenses, bakeries etc because all that stuff is much cheaper in supermarkets.

[Lin Henden]

You must be joking! This is ED!! Can spell just not afford to shop in ED any more apart from living here for the past 60 years!! Now most shopping I do is organic online (which works out cheaper than Coop) or SMBS( my favourite shop), don't think I would have a balanced diet if not for them!

[Lin Henden]

THAT!

[Lin Henden]

One anwswer: Plumstead & Totnes: Inbreds!

[monica]

alice Wrote:

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> Did SNUB make any difference?

>

> How much did it cost?

Hey Alice

Im Monica from SNUB. In 2007 we received funding from Southwark council, Greener, Cleaner Safer, to produce reusable bags, for East Dulwich and Dulwich Wards. The iniative did have an impact, and today in 2014, I still see the SNUB bags being used. Great stuff. A lot of the local independents have produced their own bags, including my own store, and I do see a lot of shoppers on the lane, with their own bags. Back in 2010, we carried out a survey, to see how much of an impact, our campaign had locally, and with the collated figures, I am proud to say, we discovered at least 60% of the East Dulwich shoppers were using their own bags.

SNUB is a local community group, however there is only me now, and because I work full time, I can only do so much.

I am currently working with 2 schools, installing edible gardens and teaching the school children how to grow their own veg. Local gardener Jane Booth is project managing and teaching the Children at Francesca Cabrini. Nigel Hawkins is working at Dulwich wood, formerly Langbourne. SNUB also installed the gardens at goose green school, Goodrich, Summerhouse and St Anthonys in 2010.

Mc Govern Design and Build made and installed all the raised beds, for free in all the schools, except St Anthonys.

Edited for typo

[Pickle]

The SNUB bags were great, ours are still in daily use.

[alice]

good to hear that

[JohnL]

Brought some Sainsbury bags on Saturday - my broken ones were Asda.

Lets see if I can make these last :)

Much more packaging from products goes in my bin than bags mind.

[worldwiser]

Only on the EDF could a discussion about plastic bags include terrorism.

Ban plastic bags and the sales of bin liners will rise exponentially.. google it. The net effect of banning them is barely worth the trouble. And, like others have mentioned, it makes people think they're saving the planet when it's having almost no effect at all. Better to encourage people to do far more useful things like insulate their homes, drive less, don't buy bottled water - that kind of thing.

And smoking in pubs was banned because people have a right not to have to breathe your poisonous smoke. Jeopardise your health if you want to, but do it in your own space. Are you arguing we should continue to poison the public for the sake of keeping a nostalgic smoky smell alive?