Chavs on dirt bikes

[StraferJack]

.

edited because darn it, LadyD asked me to not mention something before

nothing to see here

[LadyDeliah]

Lol

[Louisa]

Otta yes I agree the plumber/office worker comparison is weak inevitably because class is about more than money, as any snob who's played the 'keeping up with the joneses' game will verify.

Louisa.

[root]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Otta yes I agree the plumber/office worker

> comparison is weak inevitably because class is

> about more than money, as any snob who's played

> the 'keeping up with the joneses' game will

> verify.

>

> Louisa.

It's hilarious you guys talk about class like you're still living in the 1850s

[Jeremy]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Otta yes I agree the plumber/office worker

> comparison is weak inevitably because class is

> about more than money

But if someone from a certain "class" can earn more money than someone from a supposedly higher class, have their own business, have a nicer house, drive a nicer car, maybe even send their kids to private school if they choose... the concept of class starts to become irrelevant.

[Otta]

EXACTLY!!!!!! I've been saying that on here since 2007 and no one bloody listens!

You can't lump everyone in to Working class / middle class it simply doesn't work.

People might describe themself as working class, but that's about mind set not finances.

[Earl Aelfheah]

If they work in a junior administrative position, in an office, then I applaud their behaviour - as although they don't have a lot of money, I consider them to be 'white collar' and therefore beyond reproach. They're probably just blowing off steam and who can really condemn a little hi-jinx.

If however, these motorcyclists work in the building trade, perhaps own their own firm / earn a six figure salary, I abhor such recklessness on the public carriageways. Clearly their blue collar occupation makes their actions quite reprehensible. Or... maybe it excuses them, they are after all victims of their own circumstance and society's class prejudice.

I am so confused. What if they were born into money but subsequently lost it all - do we give them a bike and encourage them to run over a banker with it or not?

[Louisa]

Jeremy and Otta. Class shouldn't matter, but it does. Even more so today than it ever did in the past. A well developed underclass of people who are forgotten by society are a very visible sign of 21st century class. Even putting these people to one side, the way the institutional structures of this country work, a certain segment of the aristocratic classes will always be different to the rest of us based purely on blood lines regardless of wealth. A poor lord down on his luck is valued more than the working class person made good who's earned a small fortune. There is no such thing as class equality in this country and money doesn't necessarily play a part in this. The mindset of this country is that those at the top will always be better than those at the bottom, regardless of wealth.

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

So should the Lord down on his luck be riding his dirt bike on the pavement, or on the road? Does the Highway Code cover any of this? It's so complicated.

[Louisa]

The ironic thing is - and this is my point. A poor lord, down on his luck, riding through the streets of ED on a lambretta (probably borrowed as he's poor) would be less likely to be stopped by the law than a working class person minding their own business walking down LL holding a couple of Iceland bags, purely based on the fact they would look more dodgy to the powers that be than the crazy psycho lord speeding along the pavement. Does that make sense?

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Well to be fair, some of those Iceland meals are probably more dangerous than a psychopathic Lord on a Lambretta.

Louisa Wrote:

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> The ironic thing is - and this is my point. A poor

> lord, down on his luck, riding through the streets

> of ED on a lambretta (probably borrowed as he's

> poor) would be less likely to be stopped by the

> law than a working class person minding their own

> business walking down LL holding a couple of

> Iceland bags, purely based on the fact they would

> look more dodgy to the powers that be than the

> crazy psycho lord speeding along the pavement.

> Does that make sense?

>

> Louisa.

[StraferJack]

Total sense Louisa

People walking down lordship lane with Iceland bags get stopped every day. By the law!

It's harassment isn't it. I'm surprised more people don't complain about it

[Earl Aelfheah]

I have only once been knocked down by a rampaging aristocrat, but twice felt queasy after a double decker frozen pizza.

[root]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Jeremy and Otta. Class shouldn't matter, but it

> does. Even more so today than it ever did in the

> past. A well developed underclass of people who

> are forgotten by society are a very visible sign

> of 21st century class. Even putting these people

> to one side, the way the institutional structures

> of this country work, a certain segment of the

> aristocratic classes will always be different to

> the rest of us based purely on blood lines

> regardless of wealth. A poor lord down on his luck

> is valued more than the working class person made

> good who's earned a small fortune. There is no

> such thing as class equality in this country and

> money doesn't necessarily play a part in this. The

> mindset of this country is that those at the top

> will always be better than those at the bottom,

> regardless of wealth.

>

> Louisa.

You mean there are morons who take pride in being the subjects of a monarchy instead of citizens of a nation who democratically elect their (no matter how symbolic only) head of state?

...and that there are glass ceilings? That you are unlikely to get a job at certain firms unless you have been introduced through the right channels or been to the right school? That you will never go past a certain point career wise unless you have established certain contacts and allegiances as a child that you could only get if your parents were of the right pedegree and sent you to the right school?

...or that you are at a disadvantage applying for a job if your name is Jermome Mbadiwe despite being better educated and competent than a guy called James Spencer.

It's messed up, but it's human nature and we still have a long way to go. Whist having a drink with a very senior person in another european country I witnessed this guy receiving a call from another very senior businessman in that country telling him off because he had employed a 'nobody' when there were kids of very 'good people' who needed to start their career in positions like that. In a north african country I was rebuked by an Arab because I went out on a date with a black girl. In the UK I had the worst time in my life at a company because it was hijacked by uber racist Afrikaaners whilst in yet another country I had some situations facilitated because of good deeds I had done to some Serbians (and I'm not Serbian).

Now Afrikaaners kids ... those can be a nasty bunch. Those kids could have very well been Afrikaaners.

[Penguin68]

Curiously, the under-class of which Louisa speaks is not in fact working class, but mainly 'not-working' class. In my experience working class people (i.e. those who earn their livings through manual and skilled trades rather than through office and non-manual work) take a pride in their appearance, behaviour and attitudes, and often form the backbone of any society, rather than attacking or undermining it. They are as likely (some might say more likely) to respect others, not to act without thought or with criminal or vandalistic intent etc. etc.

Of course, when celebrating, they can become as obnoxious in drink as any member of the Bullingdon, but this is alcohol, not class, talking.

The social classification that used to be used (A, B, C1, C2, D, E) would have placed what I think Louisa probably means by 'working class' in the C1, C2, D groups (from skilled and supervisory manual through to unskilled manual work) - E is reserved for those not in work and on state, or no, benefits (including just the state pension).

Her 'under class' are almost certainly all found in the E category. Of course retired working class people who only have a state (no occupational) pension would also classify as E - but I can't see them on motor bikes racing around the streets, quite.

'Middle class' would also be found in the C1 (and possibly, aspirationally in the C2 for semi-skilled clerical work).

[Earl Aelfheah]

So we're all agreed that if you've been to Eton you may drive a quad bike through the isles of Iceland?

[Louisa]

Afrikaner kids on quad bikes, a rampaging eton educated lord rampaging through Iceland on a lambretta. This conversation is losing me. I was trying to be serious!

I agree about the class structure Penguin68 talks of. The structure appears to have become more complex these days, but the boundaries are there still despite a more muddled middle so to speak.

I think on the topic of bags, I wonder statistically if a stop and search crack down by the police has ever been aimed at the shopping bags we hold? I would probably estimate someone with an Iceland/lidl/aldi bag would be more likely to be stopped than someone sporting a Waitrose/M&S bag.

Louisa.

[Otta]

What if your mum is a lawyer and your dad is a plumber?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Then you may be arrested for riding your dirt bike on the pavement, but the charges will be dropped later. Page 22 of the Highway Code, paragraph 26.4

[Earl Aelfheah]

... although it does depend on where you shop, of course.

[Jeremy]

If your mother is a builder and you're riding a 100cc scooter carrying one M&S bag and one Iceland bag, what is the probability of being stopped by the police?

Please show all your working, clearly listing any estimated physical quantities.

[Earl Aelfheah]

How much does does your father pay for a coffee in this scenario?

[Seabag]

What happens if you're Dad was The Duke of Norfolk, but your Mum was a skivvy at the Castle

And you didn't know, then became a Dustman and your wife ran off with another woman, she then moved back in with you, but bought the other woman with her

And you were named "Butch"

What class are you then ?

[Louisa]

I think statistically speaking a teenager with one working class and one middle class parent on a scooter (carrying a bag from both Iceland and M&S) would be a highly unlikely scenario. However, if this did happen, I would reckon the officer involved would weigh up the character of the individual once stopped, and if they showed signs of being privately educated (posh accent) they would get a friendly tap on the shoulder and told to move. However, if they spoke with a traditionally working class regional accent they would probably be verbally probed a lot more. Out of interest, was this person riding their scooter on the pavement or were they being law abiding? This is a difficult one.

Louisa.

[root]

Louisa Wrote:

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> of interest, was this person riding their scooter

> on the pavement or were they being law abiding?

> This is a difficult one.

>

> Louisa.

One was doing wheelies on the road, one was doing wheelies on the pavement.