Older children and night nappies

[susyp]

I post each summer about this when we try ditching night time nappies and so I understand the biological process that should happen before children are dry at night. My questions is, as they get older is it possible that it can become a habit to wee into a nappy and so the body becomes used to it? My daughter most definitely is happy to use it as a toilet but she also needs it for the middle of the night sleep weeing.

My daughter is 6 and tonight is night 3 of giving up nappies. In the past when we have tried it (yearly since age 4) , she's had accidents 2 or 3 times a night and i ve given up quickly- 4 nights is my longest. Night 1 this time was fine, I lifted at 10 and she did a huge wee, I checked on her at 3am and she woke up, so I took her for a wee. Last night she had quite a late dinner and late night , I lifted her at 11 and then left her 2 it, she woke at 5 soAked , so,quick wash down and lifting off top sheet layer, I didn't think to suggest toilet as I thought it had just happened, but then at 7 she was even more soaked!

Is it worth pushing on, with earlier dinner etc and will her body learn to wake her?

Should I be seeking a referral if no joy, or wait another year again, until she is 7?

Susyp

[Convex]

I think seek a referral.

My nephew is similar, it turned out he needed to drink more water to trigger the correct overnight response (I'm sure that's very over simplified but thats how she explained it to me)

But bottom line is there are a number of things it could be and there is no harm in speaking to gp about a referral.

[prit]

PMed you

[etta166]

I'd think that wetting more than once in the night would probably be a sign that urine production is not shutting down at night time the way it does in an adult. I'd ask for a referral, but don't be too disappointed not to get anywhere. There's a very significant number of children that are not dry at night at 6, so your GP may not see it as a problem yet.

[GinaG3]

A fair few of the kids in my family haven't been dry at night until 7-9 years old. No medical intervention was ever needed they were just 'slower' than some other children. My friend has just got her daughter dry at night at 6 years old. I don't think people realise how common this actually is. I personally would get it checked out to put your mind at rest but I think a doctor will probably see this quite often with no underlying issues.

[Fmm]

I'm so relieved to see the original post on this! My little one is nearly 5 and it seems all her peers are dry at night. I have also been wondering if it is now a habit to wee in nappy at night. All advice seems to be to go cold turkey and just take the nappy off (perhaps with one lift at 11ish). But my little one cant even get to 11pm without wetting the bed! Then at 11pm won't actually 'go'. Then wakes up wet at 2am, 3am etc. Having always slept very well this is a bit of a shocker to all of us! I have noticed that my child does not drink nearly half as much as other children during the day. Could this be a contributing factor? Or, any other advice?

[snowboarder]

We have the same as you Fmm - a just 5 yr old who when we have tried to go cold turkey actually is wet multiple times...whilst his 3 yr old brother has been dry at night for a year, which kind of implies it happens when they are ready. I'm just going with the night time pull ups and no stress for the moment but can't see when things might change...

[Pickle]

It is very, very common, but people don't talk about it.

My son was 6 before he was dry at night, having been dry in the daytime from the age of 2. We tried lifting, it made no difference. One night he declared he didn't need a pull-up anymore, and he's been dry ever since.

My nephew saw a doctor at 7 regarding his bed wetting, and the consultant doesn't want to see him again until he's 10 (he's 9 now, and gradually improving).

The worst thing you can do is make a big deal about it. Let the child guide you, don't force it.

[edanna]

My attitude to this as someone who was subjected to some fairly brutal investigations/therapies for bed wetting as a child is that the best thing is to wait it out. Some kids are just later than others at starting to produce whatever hormone it is that suppresses urine production at night. I don't believe that being dry at night is something that is learnt. Kids are more likely to be later becoming dry at night if one parent was and even more so if both parents were.

[susyp]

Thanks for all te replies. The only reason tbh I am

Bothered about it is because she gets a lot of infections and it can't help. Also because she is far wetter at weekend mornings when she reads for a bit before waking us and I know that she is quite happy to wee away in it so thought I would see if she is ready to give it up. Having read all the replies yes I think we will hold off and not seek any medical help yet, seems too early and she is not bothered by it.

We ve had 2 nights now of being dry- I lift her at 10. Not sure if its just fluke but figure worth continuing for a bit to see if it will be a pattern. Tiring as I check her all the time as hate though of her sleeping in wee. If se starts to complain about the lifting, and she wets without it, we ll go back to nappies for another year or until she suggests otherwise!

Reassuring to hear others replies!

[Pickle]

You should try to limit her wearing a pull-up while she's awake. She's old enough to understand that part of it... teach her that when she wakes in the morning she should get up, go to the toilet, put some pants on, and then read in her room.

There's a big difference between unconscious wetting while sleeping and knowingly doing it because you're too warm and cosy to get up :)

[SBot]

I've read and heard it's all to do with a hormone that is released to enable them to sleep through with bladder control. It is something that cannot be taught/trained. My LO is 4 and still wears a nappy. It's fairly wet in the morning. I don't mind. No-one needs to know she wears a nappy to bed. She starts school this September and I shall not be trying dry nights before school. I shall wait until the nappies are drying in the morning.

Sarah x

[HannahG]

Have already sent a PM but just wanted to respond to the above. It is true that in some children there is a hormone that can be deficient that may cause bedtime wetting. This is rarely the case though and is more often due to simply a small bladder that needs to be stretched by extra drinking in day and holding their wee for a bit longer. Some medications can be used but rarely in children under 7 and even then won't work unless the child's bladder is big enough. These also usually won't be prescribed until bladder training has been tried. Great advice from everyone concerning no pressure and just waiting though! I see lots of children who are 10+ when they initially visit and are dry within months. x

[susyp]

Another dry night ;-) (save lifting at 10pm). It's quite a move on from the last two times I have tried (trying yearly in the summer). I wasn't too worried when she was 4 and having read all the above I'm now not even that worried now she is 6 aside from the fact she gets a lot of infections which I am sure are linked to it (girls oestrogen levels drop after about age 3 until age 9 making them more susceptible to infections - I have read). And she wants to have sleepovers with her best friend over the street and while I think she is too young anyway, I'd like her to be fully dry at night before I agree.

And thank you HannahG for your advice my daughter has taken it on board and we have a chart now that she fills in everytime she has a drink and it's showing a steady increase (great when they start doing maths and you can use it to get them to do things). I normally nag her to go to the toilet all the time so I am going to stop doing that to allow her bladder to stretch - as she does invariably leave it to the last minute without me nagging. It seems a likely cause as she doesn't drink very much at all so maybe only goes a handful of times in a day - and my husband has this problem so I am keen to make sure her bladder is big enough (I can never understand how he can go from being fine to suddenly desperately needing the toilet!! Causes innumerable problems on motorways!)

Sbot it is quite different having a child who is wet at 4 to a child who is wet at 6 - my daughter is going into year 2 now. She has never had even a remotely dry nappy and it is getting hard now to tell which are accidents and which is deliberate weeing when awake! So that can't be a guide for me.

Pickle I quite agree that she shouldnt' be deliberately weeing in her nappy but I've asked her not to for the last year with promises of rewards etc if she does a wee in the toilet when she wakes - but to no avail - so the only course of action was to remove the nappy!! It only happens at weekends when I ask her not to wake me before her mr sun comes up- otherwise I tend to be up at the same time as her and her nappy is whipped off before she gets a chance to wee!

appreciate all the replies and pms it's made a big difference to our approach and we are getting somewhere now. It's possible we may end up back in nappies if she won't keep on being lifted (bit stroppy last night) but hoping I c an do it for a couple of weeks while she gets used to the whole concept and we work on stretching her bladder and then she may be in a position to go all night without lifting. We shall see!

susypx

[HannahG]

Brilliant news! Well done to both of you :-)

[minder]

If your daughter is getting lots of infections, which usually require antibiotics, can your doctor not offer some advice, if not referrals to places?

It sounds like you are disturbing your daughter's sleep pattern and this in turn can affect bed-wetting.

[esme]

Keep trying and avoid lifting as recipe for disaster (based on views of lots of mums I know)... Brolly sheets are excellent - pricey but don't make a noise and so easy to change bed in the night if necessary.

Good luck!

[crystal7]

Sounds like you're making progress!

My 5 year old is still wearing pull ups at night in spite of being potty trained just after she turned 2. We haven't tried lifting yet, I was hoping it would resolve itself. She's had a few dry nights and often the pull up isn't very wet. Interesting about the impact of the amount of fluid they drink has. My daughter doesn't drink very much and isn't often thirsty. I've only really noticed as my younger child has grown up, he drinks so much more.

Reading this thread I feel a bit less alone, as a previous poster said, no one really talks about school children still wearing nappies...

[Cora]

I think wetting 2/3 times a night makes it worth checking with a referral but a very simple thing we were told when my son suddenly started wetting again at 6 (dry at 4) was for him to go and 'empty his balloon at night'. I always asked if he wanted a wee before bed but he rarely did but as the dr pointed out the obvious, he wouldn't as it wasn't full. So he now goes to the loo before bed regardless of whether get feels like it.....I know it's obvious, it just wasn't part of our routine as I thought I had covered it by asking him if he wanted the loo!

Not much help for OP but might save someone a referral!