Incident at East Dulwich Station yesterday

[vox]

Any information on what looked like a police incident yesterday at East Dulwich station?

[BrandNewGuy]

If it was 5.50ish, it was a regular ticket/Oyster inspection - with three-car police back-up and a drugs sniffer dog added in for good measure.

[Otta]

May have just been routine sniffer dog thing to do random searches. If the dog sniffs something on you, you'll be pulled aside and searched. Very annoying when you spend half hour being searched at Lewisham station, because a dog sniffed your inhaler!

[EDLove]

Brilliant. A large group of police-officers spending time pursuing the worst criminals of all - those who don't pay their train fare.

[Nigello]

Yeah, EDLove, let's just let the freeloaders get away with it, man. After all, it's the weekend and the sun is shining! Whatevs, etc?.

[vox]

Thanks Brandnewguy...it was around that time, and makes sense. However painful, good to know it was no more than that.

[Alan Medic]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> If it was 5.50ish, it was a regular ticket/Oyster

> inspection - with three-car police back-up and a

> drugs sniffer dog added in for good measure.

I was there maybe an hour earlier and if that's all it was, it was certainly overkill. There must have been 15 police inside and outside the station. When I arrived they were escorting a kid to the van.

[????]

Arrest rates - Box Ticked; minimal personal risk - Box tixed: Cappucinnos all round at Sainsbury's Starbucks

[antantant]

Ahhh brilliant, because we all know that those big time in the drug game catch trains to get around.

[clockworkorange]

all for freeloaders getting stung for non payment of fares.

on the sniffer dog bit, seems an unnecessary addition to the operation - as antantant says, all you're doing is shaking up low level buyers.

here's a thought - decriminalise it, purify the product, control it, sell it, tax it and use the money to educate people properly about drug use and help those with addictions/health problems as a result.

hugely simplistic model of course, but much better than the current farce which is "the war on drugs" which creates a black market and all the repercussions of that.

[keyhole]

I agree with clockwork,get with the times,sooner rather than later!

[Captain Cat]

???? Wrote:

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> Arrest rates - Box Ticked; minimal personal risk -

> Box tixed: Cappucinnos all round at Sainsbury's

> Starbucks

The operation looked to be an anti-drugs op. From the male who is always begging under the railway bridge to the city worker coming home from work, there are drug users everywhere - sometimes where you least expect them. And if you're a user or even a fare evader, you're much more likely to be into something else.

The vast majority of the burglaries which take place in Dulwich aren't because people want TV's and iMacs to use themselves - they're sold on to fund a habit. Random targeting of railway stations, clubs and other public areas aren't just a jolly for the police - they help to catch these guys. And yes it looked like a lot of cops for one op, but people carry do actually carry weapons... Not only was there danger to the police but police also have a duty of care to the public too.

In an era where front line police numbers are going down I think its great that they're doing this on our doorstep and trying to keep criminals on their toes

[alice]

popularity not your thing AV?

[James Barber]

East Dulwich Safer Neighbourhood (Police) Team have asked me if it is possible to get ticekt barriers added to East Dulwich station. They believe it would make a serious dent in local crime. They suggest having no barriers encourages criminals to visit us - that criminals willing to undertake more serious crimes don't expect to pay for train fairs and cars are easy to target through Automatic number Plate Recognition Systems deployed in some lcoal Police cars.

They've also suggested things have been made worse for East Dulwuch since Denmark Hill and other local stations have had barriers added focusing such miscreants onto our patch

I can't see how we could add barriers. Ideas/comments/thoughts welcome.

[BrandNewGuy]

There were several ticket inspector and just one sniffer dog, so it's an odd way of running an anti-drugs op. And a youth with a bit of weed in his pocket is not, by and large, out burgling and mugging to 'feed his habit', because weed is as cheap as chips round these parts, I believe.

[purplebreeze]

James interesting you say that about Denmark Hill as everytime I have been there recently the barriers have just been open. I thought it may be that they only have a few and the amount of traffic of people they get going through to visit Kings is huge. Also they have the train destination boards on the side wall and people are standing in the small space trying o work out what platform they need and blocking the barriers. May be worth you checking this out during the daytime, I am not sure about rush hour at the station.

[Jeremy]

James - interesting theory but sounds like a bit of a stretch. Is there actually any evidence at all?

[EDLove]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Yeah, EDLove, let's just let the freeloaders get

> away with it, man. After all, it's the weekend and

> the sun is shining! Whatevs, etc?.

You've missed the point, man. I don't think freeloaders should get away with it at all, but I also don't think it's a good use of resources to have such a large amount of police-officers on this job.

If it's non-payment of fares then I'm not sure why a ticket inspector on his own isn't enough (they manage by themselves on the trains) or, at most, with only a couple of police-officers to run after any fare dodger.

If the problem is drugs, the police don't help themselves by waiting at the bottom of a long path in high vis jackets... a drug user with an ounce of intelligence would simply turn around and wait on the platform for the next train out of there.

I do like to see police on the streets but this does seem a bit excessive.

[antantant]

They have plain clothed cops on the platforms / top of stairs watching for people who turn around.

[clockworkorange]

James Barbour - there's plenty of scope. just costs money which you'll need network rail/ Southern trains to spend. the whole station could do with a bit of a refurb really. interesting consequence of not having barriers though - if true.

AV - a very narrow minded and sadly typical view of drug users. nothing you have said addresses the issue. these exercises are a marginal deterrent at best. The police know who the local "hard" users are, they speak to them on a regular basis. If they wanted to they could go and arrest them all every day for possession.

the problem needs a holistic solution to a complex issue which does not simply revolve around criminalising somebody "feeding a habit". perhaps that person needs help to get rid of their habit but can't because currently they are a criminalised for it.

[EDLove]

antantant Wrote:

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> They have plain clothed cops on the platforms /

> top of stairs watching for people who turn around.

That makes sense :)

But it means that there were EVEN MORE police officers there than it originally seemed.

Also, if they are there to weed out (excuse the pun) drug users, why is it generally thought best to do so during busy commuting times? Is this when most drug offenders are thought to be using the trains? - I'm genuinely interested.

[MarkE]

James Barber Wrote:

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> I can't see how we could add barriers.

> Ideas/comments/thoughts welcome.

Certainly overdue, but would almost certainly require investment beyond simply putting barriers in, as there being two entrances would require both to be manned (unless it was only the commuter one which was manned) in addition to any ticket office personnel.

It's a shame this wasn't incorporated into the closure of the Garden Centre as a wider entrance on the office side along with a passage under the railway to the London-bound platform would be a way to limit it to just one entrance (and also allow for a larger ticket machine section on the other side.

There can't be many Zone 2 stations without proper barriers these days, can there?

[Bic Basher]

As part of the new TSGN rail franchise, which will include Southern from 2015, East Dulwich will be getting ticket barriers.

James Barber, I'd suggest contacting the new franchise operator Govia Thameslink Ltd who can give you more information.

[Alex K]

Interestingly thought out, clever suggestion. But the brick-and-mortar aspects... the uphill side of the station building would have to be entirely reconstructed to create a passage broad enough for two-way traffic. Ah well.